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Where does sense consciousness occurs? - Dhamma Wheel

Where does sense consciousness occurs?

A forum for members who wish to develop a deeper understanding of the Pali Canon and associated Commentaries, which for discussion purposes are both treated as authoritative.

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Alex123
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Where does sense consciousness occurs?

Postby Alex123 » Sun May 06, 2012 8:40 pm

"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

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robertk
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Re: Where does sense consciousness occurs?

Postby robertk » Mon May 07, 2012 12:20 pm

In an eye door process, for example , the cakkhu vinnana arises at the cakkhu pasada, a very subtle rupa that is situated inside the center of the physical eye. The other cittas in an eye door process arise atbthe heart base, a subtle rupa located in dependence on the blood inside the heart.

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Alex123
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Re: Where does sense consciousness occurs?

Postby Alex123 » Mon May 07, 2012 10:29 pm

"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

SamKR
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Re: Where does sense consciousness occurs?

Postby SamKR » Tue May 08, 2012 12:21 am


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retrofuturist
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Re: Where does sense consciousness occurs?

Postby retrofuturist » Tue May 08, 2012 12:23 am

Greetings,

How does this accord with the fact that with 2 eyes, what we see/experience is not 2 separate visions, but a single synthesized 3-dimensional depth-induced image? Or does Classical Theravada only allow "one-eye"-consciousness at a time?

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Alex123
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Re: Where does sense consciousness occurs?

Postby Alex123 » Tue May 08, 2012 12:41 am

"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

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mikenz66
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Re: Where does sense consciousness occurs?

Postby mikenz66 » Tue May 08, 2012 3:04 am


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robertk
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Re: Where does sense consciousness occurs?

Postby robertk » Tue May 08, 2012 8:22 am

Considering that scientists currently claim that the mind- ie all citta and cetasikas are actaully merely physical phenomena (such as neuron activity), a hilariously silly idea, I wonder why anyone would think to bother with their delusions.

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Re: Where does sense consciousness occurs?

Postby mikenz66 » Tue May 08, 2012 7:35 pm


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robertk
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Re: Where does sense consciousness occurs?

Postby robertk » Wed May 09, 2012 6:50 am

Why try to relate Rupa to what science says. The Buddha and arahats knew more about rupa than anything science will ever know.
BUT rupa can be translated as materiality. It is what is touched or smelt or seen or heard. And it is also those extremely subtle rupas such as eye base , ear base, nose base, the kammajarupa (conditioned by kamma), that are where the various types of mentality must arise.
THis is all according to Theravada but I have no texts to show you, sorry. Anyway I didn't just make this stuff up.

The idea of Alex that all 'experiences' arise in the brain can be shown to be patently false right now. Feel your toes in your shoes. Obviously the body-door consciousness is arising right in the area of the toe: as the body door is all over the body (unlike eye door which , as I said , is only situated in the center of the physical eye).

The fact that scientists, and even some buddhists, believe that all consciousness arises in the brain is a vivid demonstration of the deeply rooted nature of wrongview:
So intense is wrongview that it goes against even obvious direct experiential truths . Vipallasa, hallucination.

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mikenz66
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Re: Where does sense consciousness occurs?

Postby mikenz66 » Wed May 09, 2012 7:03 am


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robertk
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Re: Where does sense consciousness occurs?

Postby robertk » Wed May 09, 2012 7:12 am

No Mike, it is not the right way to think about it. What you seem to be doing is trying to fit the Dhamma into some sort of 'experience is all' type world view.

The Dhamma explains reality: phenomema that are experienced and also phenomena that are not experienced. For example you most likely can't experience the subtle rupa called cakkhu pasada (eye base) and yet it exists, it arirses for an infinitely short time then is gone, and replaced by another , diffrent cakkhu pasada, and this occurs repeatedly, over trillions of moments each day: provide that the kamma producing this rupa, keeps producing (again you can't be aware of that kamma- done in the past, that is the cause for the cakkhu pasada now) .

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Re: Where does sense consciousness occurs?

Postby polarbear101 » Wed May 09, 2012 7:17 am

Last edited by polarbear101 on Wed May 09, 2012 7:28 am, edited 3 times in total.
"I don't envision a single thing that, when developed & cultivated, leads to such great benefit as the mind. The mind, when developed & cultivated, leads to great benefit."

"I don't envision a single thing that, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about such suffering & stress as the mind. The mind, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about suffering & stress."

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mikenz66
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Re: Where does sense consciousness occurs?

Postby mikenz66 » Wed May 09, 2012 7:19 am

Not so much "experience is all", but "experience is all we can experience". I certainly don't buy arguments that the Buddha taught that there is no external reality.

Thanks for the clarifications.

:anjali:
Mike

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mikenz66
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Re: Where does sense consciousness occurs?

Postby mikenz66 » Wed May 09, 2012 7:24 am


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robertk
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Re: Where does sense consciousness occurs?

Postby robertk » Wed May 09, 2012 7:27 am


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robertk
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Re: Where does sense consciousness occurs?

Postby robertk » Wed May 09, 2012 7:39 am


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polarbear101
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Re: Where does sense consciousness occurs?

Postby polarbear101 » Wed May 09, 2012 8:31 am

"I don't envision a single thing that, when developed & cultivated, leads to such great benefit as the mind. The mind, when developed & cultivated, leads to great benefit."

"I don't envision a single thing that, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about such suffering & stress as the mind. The mind, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about suffering & stress."

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retrofuturist
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Re: Where does sense consciousness occurs?

Postby retrofuturist » Wed May 09, 2012 8:36 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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mikenz66
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Re: Where does sense consciousness occurs?

Postby mikenz66 » Wed May 09, 2012 8:52 am

Which I guess all goes to show that Buddhism is not science, and doesn't purport to be.

So perhaps we should get back to the Classical Theravada interpretation of sense consciousness, and how to use that understanding to end suffering.

:anjali:
Mike


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