Is there a tradition in Therevada for doing insight meditation on the 3 characteristics? If so, how should this be approached?
Thanks.
Rick
Insight meditation on the 3 characteristics?
- Spiny O'Norman
- Posts: 851
- Joined: Sat May 23, 2009 8:46 am
- Location: Suffolk, England
- retrofuturist
- Posts: 27859
- Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
- Location: Melbourne, Australia
- Contact:
Re: Insight meditation on the 3 characteristics?
Greetings Rick,
These three characteristics are all observed during vipassana meditation.
So is your question actually asking about different vipassana techniques?
Metta,
Retro.
These three characteristics are all observed during vipassana meditation.
So is your question actually asking about different vipassana techniques?
Metta,
Retro.
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
Re: Insight meditation on the 3 characteristics?
"Thus, monks, any form whatsoever that is past, future, or present; internal or external; blatant or subtle; common or sublime; far or near: every form is to be seen as it actually is with right discernment as: 'This is not mine. This is not my self. This is not what I am.'
"Any feeling whatsoever...
"Any perception whatsoever...
"Any fabrications whatsoever...
"Any consciousness whatsoever that is past, future, or present; internal or external; blatant or subtle; common or sublime; far or near: every consciousness is to be seen as it actually is with right discernment as: 'This is not mine. This is not my self. This is not what I am.'
- SN 22.59
"Any feeling whatsoever...
"Any perception whatsoever...
"Any fabrications whatsoever...
"Any consciousness whatsoever that is past, future, or present; internal or external; blatant or subtle; common or sublime; far or near: every consciousness is to be seen as it actually is with right discernment as: 'This is not mine. This is not my self. This is not what I am.'
- SN 22.59
- Peter
Be heedful and you will accomplish your goal.
Be heedful and you will accomplish your goal.
- Spiny O'Norman
- Posts: 851
- Joined: Sat May 23, 2009 8:46 am
- Location: Suffolk, England
Re: Insight meditation on the 3 characteristics?
Yes, Retro, that's right. I am OK observing arising and ceasing, but I'm not sure where to go next. I find that if I introduce the 3 characteristics into meditation I get quickly involved in concepts ( thinking about them ) rather than just observing....which doesn't feel right.retrofuturist wrote:Greetings Rick,
These three characteristics are all observed during vipassana meditation.
So is your question actually asking about different vipassana techniques?
Metta,
Retro.
Rick
- Spiny O'Norman
- Posts: 851
- Joined: Sat May 23, 2009 8:46 am
- Location: Suffolk, England
Re: Insight meditation on the 3 characteristics?
[quote="Peter 'This is not mine. This is not my self. This is not what I am.'
- SN 22.59[/quote]
Thanks Peter. I'm familiar with this but haven't actually used it in meditation - is this what you're suggesting?
Rick
- SN 22.59[/quote]
Thanks Peter. I'm familiar with this but haven't actually used it in meditation - is this what you're suggesting?
Rick
- tiltbillings
- Posts: 23046
- Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am
Re: Insight meditation on the 3 characteristics?
Rick O'Shez wrote:Yes, Retro, that's right. I am OK observing arising and ceasing, but I'm not sure where to go next. I find that if I introduce the 3 characteristics into meditation I get quickly involved in concepts ( thinking about them ) rather than just observing....which doesn't feel right.retrofuturist wrote:Greetings Rick,
These three characteristics are all observed during vipassana meditation.
So is your question actually asking about different vipassana techniques?
Metta,
Retro.
Rick
It shouldn't feel right. Introducing concepts into your practice is exactly what you are doing. Spend some time with this guy: http://www.dharmaseed.org/teacher/96/?q=&sort=rec_date" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
-
- Posts: 1952
- Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 5:29 pm
- Location: London, UK
Re: Insight meditation on the 3 characteristics?
or go to his source:
http://web.ukonline.co.uk/buddhism/mahasi.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
you might need some samatha in there for the understanding to really 'stick'. For satipatthana to truly develop you need to get into (not intentionally- it is just a development) a 'vipassana atmosphere' of seeing nothing but impermanence everywhere you look. Seeing arising and passing away is what will eventually lead up to it. How are you seeing arising and passing away and how long do you do it?
http://web.ukonline.co.uk/buddhism/mahasi.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
you might need some samatha in there for the understanding to really 'stick'. For satipatthana to truly develop you need to get into (not intentionally- it is just a development) a 'vipassana atmosphere' of seeing nothing but impermanence everywhere you look. Seeing arising and passing away is what will eventually lead up to it. How are you seeing arising and passing away and how long do you do it?
With Metta
Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha
Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha
- Spiny O'Norman
- Posts: 851
- Joined: Sat May 23, 2009 8:46 am
- Location: Suffolk, England
Re: Insight meditation on the 3 characteristics?
Thanks. So are you saying that awareness of impermanence is "central" to vipassana, rather than awareness of non-self? Currently I am working and only doing 30 minutes meditation a day, which I am fully aware isn't enough to really get to grips with this stuff.rowyourboat wrote:or go to his source:
http://web.ukonline.co.uk/buddhism/mahasi.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
you might need some samatha in there for the understanding to really 'stick'. For satipatthana to truly develop you need to get into (not intentionally- it is just a development) a 'vipassana atmosphere' of seeing nothing but impermanence everywhere you look. Seeing arising and passing away is what will eventually lead up to it. How are you seeing arising and passing away and how long do you do it?
Rick
- retrofuturist
- Posts: 27859
- Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
- Location: Melbourne, Australia
- Contact:
Re: Insight meditation on the 3 characteristics?
Greetings Rick,
Metta,
Retro.
The point is observing these characteristics rather than conceptualising and mentally proliferating them.Rick O'Shez wrote:So are you saying that awareness of impermanence is "central" to vipassana, rather than awareness of non-self?
Metta,
Retro.
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
- puthujjana
- Posts: 106
- Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2009 8:13 am
- Location: Hamburg, Germany
- Contact:
Re: Insight meditation on the 3 characteristics?
You can conclude the other two characteristics by observing impermanence:Rick O'Shez wrote:So are you saying that awareness of impermanence is "central" to vipassana, rather than awareness of non-self?
with metta"Now is what is impermanent painful or pleasant?" — "Painful, venerable Sir." — "Now is what is impermanent, what is painful since subject to change, fit to be regarded thus: 'This is mine, this is I, this is my self'"? — "No, venerable sir."
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .nymo.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"Once you understand anatta, then the burden of life is gone. You’ll be at peace with the world. When we see beyond self, we no longer cling to happiness and we can truly be happy."
- Ajahn Chah
- Ajahn Chah
- Spiny O'Norman
- Posts: 851
- Joined: Sat May 23, 2009 8:46 am
- Location: Suffolk, England
Re: Insight meditation on the 3 characteristics?
Yes, I'm sure you're right. More time on the cushion is probably the answer.retrofuturist wrote:Greetings Rick,
The point is observing these characteristics rather than conceptualising and mentally proliferating them.Rick O'Shez wrote:So are you saying that awareness of impermanence is "central" to vipassana, rather than awareness of non-self?
Metta,
Retro.
Rick
Re: Insight meditation on the 3 characteristics?
Hi Rick
I think that's probably a good way to approach the observation of tilakkhana.
My experience has been that as my awareness of one characteristic becomes acute, I simultaneously begin to become aware of the other characteristics.
Observation of the anicca characteristic of vedana (sensation) has been my principal technique.
Metta
Ben
I think that's probably a good way to approach the observation of tilakkhana.
My experience has been that as my awareness of one characteristic becomes acute, I simultaneously begin to become aware of the other characteristics.
Observation of the anicca characteristic of vedana (sensation) has been my principal technique.
Metta
Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725
Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global Relief • UNHCR
e: [email protected]..
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725
Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global Relief • UNHCR
e: [email protected]..
Re: Insight meditation on the 3 characteristics?
You don't have to approach them. They approach you. So for example if your meditation is on the breath, just keep doing that. It is anicca. It is anatta. It is dukkha.Rick O'Shez wrote:... how should this be approached?
Rain soddens what is kept wrapped up,
But never soddens what is open;
Uncover, then, what is concealed,
Lest it be soddened by the rain.
But never soddens what is open;
Uncover, then, what is concealed,
Lest it be soddened by the rain.
- Spiny O'Norman
- Posts: 851
- Joined: Sat May 23, 2009 8:46 am
- Location: Suffolk, England
Re: Insight meditation on the 3 characteristics?
Yes, thanks, that makes sense.Ben wrote:Hi Rick
I think that's probably a good way to approach the observation of tilakkhana.
My experience has been that as my awareness of one characteristic becomes acute, I simultaneously begin to become aware of the other characteristics.
Observation of the anicca characteristic of vedana (sensation) has been my principal technique.
Metta
Ben
Rick
- Spiny O'Norman
- Posts: 851
- Joined: Sat May 23, 2009 8:46 am
- Location: Suffolk, England
Re: Insight meditation on the 3 characteristics?
In practice I find that my focus on the breath "lightens" after a period of time and I become aware in a more general way of what my mind is up to.Jechbi wrote:You don't have to approach them. They approach you. So for example if your meditation is on the breath, just keep doing that. It is anicca. It is anatta. It is dukkha.Rick O'Shez wrote:... how should this be approached?
Rick