retrofuturist wrote:Greetings Cittasanto,
The issue of "attainments" is a bit inverted because it infers an "I" who can "attain" something, and an "attainment" would be a result of updana (appropriating).
Conversely, the Dhamma is about setting aside appropriation, so it's actually about how much of the burden can be laid down, as compared to what can be picked up.
For many of the "claims of enlightenment" made online, it's clear that the "attainment" (whether they believe it to be true or are just pulling your leg) is yet another accumulation... something else that has been picked up. Simply reading what is said, it is apparent that those burdens which would need to be laid down, in order for the claimed "attainment" to be a reality, have not been laid down.
Cittasanto wrote:"why claim attainments to complete strangers on a forum you just joined?" or "what are they trying to prove, or get?"
Cittisanto wrote: "why claim attainments to complete strangers on a forum you just joined?" or "what are they trying to prove, or get?"
Alobha wrote:As for the right time and right intention: The Buddha talked about this and i can remember that there's a rule against it in the patimokkha, isn't it? Does the patimokkha specify a right time for such claims or explains any exceptions where talking about achievements would be of benefit? While laypeople are not bound to these rules, their wisdom and the reasons why these rules exist, still apply.
Khaggavisāṇa sutta: A Rhinoceros! - Sn1.3 says wrote:13. “Addhā pasaṃsāma sahāyasampadaṃ, Seṭṭhā samā sevitabbā sahāyā;
Ete aladdhā anavajjabhojī, Eko care khaggavisāṇakappo”.
We praise the fortune of spending time in friendship, excellent is a year of association with friends;
this is enough time for friends to see each others faults, then it is suitable to travel like a solitary rhinoceros!
Would you mind saying that all again clearly and concisely.Volcommerce wrote: . . .
Volcommerce wrote:Regarding any claim of enlightenment,
The words and information of the individual claiming such a profound statement should be analyzed for depth and consistency with the information the teachings of other ''spiritual masters'' he has identified his or her supposed experience with.
If this individual has indeed followed such a path, his or her expression would not be spoke 'from the ''side of his mouth,'' his or her understanding should be able to display any and all direct wisdom, insight and confirmation of the enlightened experience and wisdom other ''masters'' have attained.
This individual will not have necessary considered the effect, ''concern,'' and certainly not the ''admonishment,'' of others, in fact, the medium of his explanation should not be considered to have any influence on his experience. The thought, ''how do an an enlightened person express this profound experience?'' cannot be a thought expected of a realized being, I believe it is more indicative of the personal desire of others to consider the information pertaining to the manifestation of this person, rather than the actual experience and condition that have motivated this person's experience, which should be the basis of all consideration, including the knowledge, wisdom and understanding of enlightenment .
jackson wrote:Greetings Volcommerce,
I believe Cittasanto is referring to the Ayacana Sutta, which can be found here: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn06/sn06.001.than.html
SDC wrote:Cittasanto wrote:"what are they trying to prove, or get?"
Dhp Chapter 5 wrote:"Let both laymen and monks think that it was done by me. In every work, great and small, let them follow me" — such is the ambition of the fool; thus his desire and pride increase.
Only if you are not quite convinced yourself will you be anxious to convince others: you are seeking confirmation. Those who know don't speak.
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