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Why Meditate? - Dhamma Wheel

Why Meditate?

General discussion of issues related to Theravada Meditation, e.g. meditation postures, developing a regular sitting practice, skillfully relating to difficulties and hindrances, etc.
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mikenz66
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Why Meditate?

Postby mikenz66 » Wed May 16, 2012 7:35 pm


Bagoba
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Re: Why Meditate?

Postby Bagoba » Wed May 16, 2012 7:48 pm

"This path is a thorough investigation and understanding of the limitations of the mortal condition of the body and mind. Now you're developing the ability to turn away from the conditioned and to release your identity from mortality." Ajan Sumedho, "Mindfulness, the path to the Deathless."

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Travis
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Re: Why Meditate?

Postby Travis » Wed May 16, 2012 8:05 pm

Thanks for sharing this, Mike.

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retrofuturist
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Re: Why Meditate?

Postby retrofuturist » Wed May 16, 2012 10:54 pm

Greetings,

(Reading the full entry... :reading: )

"Dark night" in the context of Theravada is interesting.

I wonder whether some paths/meditations/actions/whatever-you-want-to-call-them lead into the rabbits burrow of dukkha better than they lead out of it. It's quite plausible that the path that leads you to be aware of the problem, is quite a different path to that which can cure the problem, once diagnosed. To give an analogy, the x-ray that shows tumours is different to the medicine that may be used to heal them. Is the meditation the x-ray and/or the remedy? When the author of the posting says things like, " Advanced practitioners want to awaken because they are tired of being on the path, tired of being stuck in the twilight between awake and asleep", I wonder whether they're just sitting there taking endless x-rays, rather than taking the medicine of the Noble Eightfold Path.

Beware the po-faced meditator.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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mikenz66
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Re: Why Meditate?

Postby mikenz66 » Wed May 16, 2012 11:57 pm


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mikenz66
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Re: Why Meditate?

Postby mikenz66 » Thu May 17, 2012 12:06 am


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retrofuturist
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Re: Why Meditate?

Postby retrofuturist » Thu May 17, 2012 12:17 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Re: Why Meditate?

Postby Goofaholix » Thu May 17, 2012 12:18 am


befriend
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Re: Why Meditate?

Postby befriend » Thu May 17, 2012 12:34 am

there is nothing more difficult than being a dhamma practitioner there is no happiness like that of a dhamma practitioner -ajahn chah
nothing can destroy a man who has lived a pure life

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Re: Why Meditate?

Postby retrofuturist » Thu May 17, 2012 2:18 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Goofaholix
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Re: Why Meditate?

Postby Goofaholix » Thu May 17, 2012 2:41 am


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retrofuturist
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Re: Why Meditate?

Postby retrofuturist » Thu May 17, 2012 2:43 am

8-)

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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kirk5a
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Re: Why Meditate?

Postby kirk5a » Thu May 17, 2012 3:38 am

"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230

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Re: Why Meditate?

Postby manas » Thu May 17, 2012 4:37 am

Then the Blessed One, picking up a tiny bit of dust with the tip of his fingernail, said to the monk, "There isn't even this much form...feeling...
perception...fabrications...consciousness that is constant, lasting, eternal, not subject to change, that will stay just as it is as long as eternity."

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mikenz66
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Re: Why Meditate?

Postby mikenz66 » Thu May 17, 2012 6:18 am


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retrofuturist
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Re: Why Meditate?

Postby retrofuturist » Thu May 17, 2012 8:00 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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manas
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Re: Why Meditate?

Postby manas » Thu May 17, 2012 8:31 am

1. :goodpost:
__________________________________________________________________________________
2. I cannot find it now, but there was a sutta where the Buddha described four types of practice: long and painful, quick and painful, long and pleasant, short and pleasant. I hope someone else can recall the sutta name, but it shows that there are differences between individuals in how they experience the path of practice.

As far as I'm concerned, I don't feel the need to make the practice dukkha-laden when most of my life has already been that way. The Dhamma is bringing me some peace of mind, at long last, and I'm not feeling in the least guilty about it! Peace...it's fine by me :D

:anjali:
Then the Blessed One, picking up a tiny bit of dust with the tip of his fingernail, said to the monk, "There isn't even this much form...feeling...
perception...fabrications...consciousness that is constant, lasting, eternal, not subject to change, that will stay just as it is as long as eternity."

dhamma_newb
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Re: Why Meditate?

Postby dhamma_newb » Thu May 17, 2012 9:34 am

The watched mind brings happiness.
Dhp 36

I am larger and better than I thought. I did not know I held so much goodness.
Walt Whitman

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retrofuturist
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Re: Why Meditate?

Postby retrofuturist » Thu May 17, 2012 9:36 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

Bagoba
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Re: Why Meditate?

Postby Bagoba » Thu May 17, 2012 10:05 am

I remember once reading and even watching a video about a meditator talking about a breakthrough that happens during meditation (I can't quite remember the name it is given though and why it happens), which can be extremely blissful for some, extremely scary and traumatic for others (visions of death and so on), and neither blissful nor traumatic for many.

Maybe the "Dark Night" that this person mentions, has something to do with that breakthrough coming upon the meditator as scary and traumatic?

On another note, to a certain extent all of us here, are currently walking in this "twilight", that's located between complete ignorance and the final knowledge and release of Nibbana. Many people around me, are far from the spiritual life, they indulge in the senses because they don't know (or don't want to know) any better. For them, "ignorance is bliss", and although they suffer terribly according to the Buddha's definition of suffering, for them they just live their lives to the fullest and make the most out of it without worrying about what tomorrow will be made of.

For us here who are sensitive to the Buddha's 4 Noble Truths, this state of being described above is hardly conceivable, as we understand the preciousness of human birth according to the Buddha's guidance, so we want to get on with the practices that will lead us to Nibbana, and these demand a discipline of body, speech and mind that wordlings do not care about one bit.

As far as my experience goes, as soon as one steps on the path, one is no longer fully ignorant, yet one is not yet fully awake, and this "twilight" situation can indeed make one seem "grouchy" when he/she gets to be around regular wordlings, if you see what I mean. :)
Last edited by Bagoba on Thu May 17, 2012 10:23 am, edited 3 times in total.
"This path is a thorough investigation and understanding of the limitations of the mortal condition of the body and mind. Now you're developing the ability to turn away from the conditioned and to release your identity from mortality." Ajan Sumedho, "Mindfulness, the path to the Deathless."


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