awareness now: Sujin boriharnwanaket

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awareness now: Sujin boriharnwanaket

Postby robertk » Fri Dec 23, 2011 8:19 am

From sarah abbott
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dhammastu ... age/121561



--- In dhammastudygroup@yahoogroups.com, Nina van Gorkom <vangorko@...> wrote:

>
Kh Sujin said that a talk on viriya (viriya katha) helps right energy
> for awareness now while there is still an opportunity for awareness.
> When there is rebirth in an unhappy plane this is very difficult,
> perhaps impossible. She said: be aware just a little, be aware even
> though there is not yet clear understanding. Just go on being aware,
> this is a condition for the arising of pa~n~naa later on.
> N: I found this encouraging, not worrying about the degree of
> understanding, or worrying about it that sati is so weak. It can be
> accumulated little by little.
> She said that we are still in human life, not in hell. We should not
> waste our life in being forgetful
.
....
S: This reminds me of the part of the recording that caught my attention as
mentioned to Phil. I listened to it again:


KS: "When the panna develops on and on one can see that everything's so
meaningless when awareness does not arise - only thinking thinking, thinking
about the past reality which appears as nimitta or sign of reality only. So only
the moment of being aware of reality has some meaning .... the other moments
past completely and only the signs are left."

S:She then goes on to talk about the 3 kinds of cariya, behaviour of citta:
a) vi~n~naana cariya (behaviour of consciousness), b) a~naana cariya (behaviour
of unknowing) c) ~naana cariya (behaviour of wisdom - pa~n~naa which can
experience reality directly)

KS: "So in the Patisambhiddamagga - vi~n~naana cariya, a~naana cariya and ~naana
cariya. Sariputta just stressed 3 words. The vi~nnaana cariya are the moments of
vipaaka ahetuka. For example when one is born one cannot escape from moments of
seeing, hearing, smelling. They have to arise - no one can avoid them - and
after that a~naana cariya, akusala comng all the time. No need to talk about
other kinds of kusala [S: kusala other than satipatthana] because it's exactly
the same like other things - just arise and pass, nothing left. Only the moment
of understanding of that reality which appears is ~naana cariya. Even right now,
when there is no awareness, there's no meaning at all."

S: K.Sujin continues to talk about how essential is is for theoretical
understanding of the Path to be "really well, firmly established otherwise
there's always no awareness at all". If there's an idea of following any
practise of doing anything in particular to have satipatthana arise, then it
indicates the theoretical understanding is not firmly established.

I like this reminder too:


KS: "Always thinking, just thinking - taking reality which has gone so very
seriously as something (which) stays, permanently, all the time. So in one's
life, no matter it's short or long, the most valuable moment is the
understanding of reality as it is. That's all, because it is the absolute
reality. No story concerning, no thinking about realities as something permanent
and (which) stays."

Jon mentions that still while we live, we have to have the other stories.

KS: " Yes, but what about the understanding? We cannot stop taking the story out
of realities, but the development of understanding can understand each moment as
a reality, not self, otherwise there is no way to eradicate the idea of self and
wrong view. "

Jon: "in that case what understanding would see if it were more fully developed
would be a lot of thinking. a lot of the moments of the day are just thinking
."

KS: "Yes, it doesn't mean we have to stop or try to stop (thinking). it's wrong
because that is done by 'I' again. The 'I ' is always there, just want something
for oneself. But actually it's like other moments, just arises and falls away,
nothing is left and that which has gone, never comes back at all. Each is the
new one conditioned by paccaya. One can see the different levels of
understanding - theoretically understanding about realities, talking about
realities, and the development of understanding with direct awareness and the
penetration of the true nature of reality as it is, as just what we keep on
talking about. Like 'dhamma, dhamma, dhamma now' but it does not appear as
dhamma when sati does not arise. So we just talk about khandha again, about
ruupa khandha - how all types of ruupa are ruupa khandha, but what about this
one? Whether it's the ruupa khandha which is seen, the ruupa khandha which is
heard, the ruupa khandha which is touched - just in a moment so fast, arising
and falling away."

S: K.Sujin goes on to discuss how it has to be the well established theoretical
understanding, sacca ~naana which conditions the direct undersanding.
****

If anyone would like to listen to this piece (and more), it can be heard at the
very beginning of the following audio to be found at the link below:

http://www.dhammastudygroup.org/#mtgs
scroll down to: Kaeng Krajaan (Thailand), September 2006
Metta

Sarah
=====
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Re: awareness now: Sujin boriharnwanaket

Postby robertk » Fri Dec 30, 2011 6:18 am

Transcipt of discussion I had with Sujin in 1993
From sarah abbot-
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dhammastu ... age/121665
Another extract from the tape I was listening to:
*****
KS: Just this moment if there is understanding it develops, otherwise it (the
object) falls away unknowingly with expectation or desire or craving and
ignorance. So by having very, very certain understanding of sacca ~naana
(knowledge of the Truths), one will not go wrong and that is the development of
kicca ~naana. Kicca ~naana is the development, little by little, very naturally
and it will lead to kata ~naana, the insight of realities.


Robert: And how does the thinking - the thinking is necessary too to consider the
Dhamma, but how can we understand how the thinking conditions the deeper
understanding of the present moment?


KS: Hmm, I don't want to say that thinking helps or one should think that one
should think - just the understanding of realities as realities. Thinking is
just a moment that thinks, that's all. Otherwise one will look forward to
something again to help, see? One has to come back to realities are realities
and what is thinking? Thinking is real and it's a moment which thinks by
conditions. By understanding this one doesn't mind whether there's thinking or
no thinking. Instead of thinking "Oh we should have thinking first in order to
help us as condition for right understanding" - that is all only thinking again
and again, again and again. Looking for something instead of just instant
awareness of realities. Just a short moment of awareness, that is right.
Otherwise when it's long it's motivated by following with the idea of self, so
as short as it is.
*****
Metta

Sarah
=====
Last edited by robertk on Thu Jan 05, 2012 10:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: awareness now: Sujin boriharnwanaket

Postby dhamma follower » Thu Jan 05, 2012 9:57 am

Thanks Robert for sharing. It seems both links don't work

Regards,
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Re: awareness now: Sujin boriharnwanaket

Postby robertk » Thu Jan 05, 2012 10:42 am

Oh.
Ok try them now.
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Re: awareness now: Sujin boriharnwanaket

Postby robertk » Sat May 12, 2012 10:17 am

2007 audio - 2. No Control


http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dhammastu ... age/124224
Dear Friends

****
Ven P: So should we keep reminding ourselves...?


KSujin: I think that when it's time to understand, to think about, to read or to
hear Dhamma, it's the development of understanding by itself and when it's time
for akusala to arise by conditions, no one can stop its arising.

So right understanding can understand the difference between moments of kusala
and akusala as all are not self. There are conditions for each reality's arising
and one will be relaxed because there is no control.

Just understand whatever appears as conditioned reality.
*****

M
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Re: awareness now: Sujin boriharnwanaket

Postby Alex123 » Mon May 21, 2012 7:11 pm

robertk wrote: There are conditions for each reality's arising


A certain dhamma controls it's certain effect. Isn't that "control" on dhamma level?
”Even the water melting from the snow-capped peaks finds its way to the ocean."
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Re: awareness now: Sujin boriharnwanaket

Postby robertk » Mon May 28, 2012 2:17 pm

Alex123 wrote:
robertk wrote: There are conditions for each reality's arising


A certain dhamma controls it's certain effect. Isn't that "control" on dhamma level?

Dhammas arise and pas away very rapidly. They have no interest , no curiosity, they are merely elements.
When a dhamma such as dosa (aversion) arises it just perfoms its function of disliking the object and in that sense it controls...
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Re: awareness now: Sujin boriharnwanaket

Postby Alex123 » Mon May 28, 2012 4:56 pm

Hello RobertK,

robertk wrote:
Alex123 wrote:
robertk wrote: There are conditions for each reality's arising

A certain dhamma controls it's certain effect. Isn't that "control" on dhamma level?

Dhammas arise and pas away very rapidly. They have no interest , no curiosity, they are merely elements.
When a dhamma such as dosa (aversion) arises it just perfoms its function of disliking the object and in that sense it controls...


Thank you for your answer.
”Even the water melting from the snow-capped peaks finds its way to the ocean."
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