Do we create karma every second

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Do we create karma every second

Postby Stephen K » Mon Jun 01, 2009 8:45 pm

Do we create karma every single moment while awake (and as a wilde guess, asleep)?
With metta,
Upāsaka Sumana
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Re: Do we create karma every second

Postby Jechbi » Mon Jun 01, 2009 8:54 pm

The real question is, are we creating kamma in this very moment right now, and if so, what kind?
Rain soddens what is kept wrapped up,
But never soddens what is open;
Uncover, then, what is concealed,
Lest it be soddened by the rain.
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Re: Do we create karma every second

Postby kc2dpt » Mon Jun 01, 2009 9:00 pm

I would think "no".
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Be heedful and you will accomplish your goal.
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Re: Do we create karma every second

Postby Stephen K » Mon Jun 01, 2009 9:13 pm

OK, thanks.
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Re: Do we create karma every second

Postby tiltbillings » Mon Jun 01, 2009 10:42 pm

Stefan wrote:Do we create karma every single moment while awake (and as a wilde guess, asleep)?


Every time you make a choice you make kamma.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: Do we create karma every second

Postby David N. Snyder » Tue Jun 02, 2009 2:43 am

tiltbillings wrote:Every time you make a choice you make kamma.

Which is almost all the time. For example, doing 'nothing' is also a choice.
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Re: Do we create karma every second

Postby Guy » Tue Jun 02, 2009 2:55 am

I am in no way qualified to answer this question, but it seems to me that not every action is a kammic action, it is only those actions which have a specific intention behind them which create kamma. For example, if you accidentally step on and kill an insect you didn't see, that would not be creating any kamma. However, if you get out a can of poison and intentionally start hunting and killing all the insects in your home, that would be a kammic action.
Four types of letting go:

1) Giving; expecting nothing back in return
2) Throwing things away
3) Contentment; wanting to be here, not wanting to be anywhere else
4) "Teflon Mind"; having a mind which doesn't accumulate things

- Ajahn Brahm
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Re: Do we create karma every second

Postby Individual » Tue Jun 02, 2009 3:29 am

Guy, let's say that you're driving and you unintentionally pull out in front of oncoming traffic, would that be a karmic action?

...As another example, let's say you're boiling some spaghetti, a droplet of water hits your arm. As a reflex, out of pain, you jerk back your arm, which then hits the cooking pan's handle, which catapults scalding water onto your face. Would this be a karmic action?

...Or let's say that you're a smoker in the 1920's and don't intend to get cancer. Would such smoking be karmic action and would lung cancer be vipaka?

It is important to remember that "intention" did not begin with this life, but the wheel of rebirth itself is supported by intention.
The best things in life aren't things.

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Re: Do we create karma every second

Postby Dhammanando » Tue Jun 02, 2009 4:25 am

Hi Stefan,

Stefan wrote:Do we create karma every single moment while awake (and as a wilde guess, asleep)?


Not every moment. During sleep there is just an uninterrupted succession of existence-continuum consciousnesses (bhavanga-citta). These are resultant consciousnesses (vipāka-citta) that are identical to the resultant consciousness with which our present life began. A resultant consciousness does not create any new kamma.

While awake no kamma is created during sense-door processes such as seeing, hearing etc., for these too consist of resultant consciousnesses. It is during the mind-door processes that follow a sense-door process that kamma is created, either through the arising of one or another of the ten unwholesome courses of action (akusala kammapaṭha), or one or another of the eight great sense-sphere wholesome consciousnesses, or (in the case of samatha cultivators), one of the refined material sphere or immaterial sphere wholesome consciousnesses.

Best wishes,
Dhammanando Bhikkhu
    ...and this thought arose in the mind of the Blessed One:
    “Who lives without reverence lives miserably.”
    Uruvela Sutta, A.ii.20

    It were endless to dispute upon everything that is disputable.
    — William Penn Some Fruits of Solitude,
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Re: Do we create karma every second

Postby Snowmelt » Tue Jun 02, 2009 4:51 am

TheDhamma wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:Every time you make a choice you make kamma.

Which is almost all the time. For example, doing 'nothing' is also a choice.


Only if you mentally make a choice. If there is no mental "choice activity", then there is no choice. The result of not making a choice is also doing nothing, potentially.
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Re: Do we create karma every second

Postby tiltbillings » Tue Jun 02, 2009 4:53 am

Only if you mentally make a choice.


Well, yeah, by definition.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: Do we create karma every second

Postby acinteyyo » Tue Jun 02, 2009 8:24 am

Greetings,
I try not to think too much about kamma and its consequences. I know that there are wholesome and unwholesome consequences with respect to the sila's or ethical behavior in general and that's enough for me. my nickname "acinteyya" means (roughly): "What should not be thought; inconceivability; something beyond the borders of thinking"
The buddha said:
There are the 4 inconceivabilities:(A.VI.77)
1. sphere of control* of the buddha (buddha-visaya)
2. sphere of control* of absorption/samādhi (jhāna-visaya)
3. sphere of action* of kamma (kamma-visaya)
4. speculation about/on* the world (lokacintā) (S.56.41)
(*sorry don't know if these are the right words)

When I was thinking about such things, I got into trouble with doubts. I guess because it is beyond thinking. :shrug:
it probably leads to insanity, if someone can't let go(A.VI.77)
:namaste:
Last edited by acinteyyo on Tue Jun 02, 2009 11:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Pubbe cāhaṃ bhikkhave, etarahi ca dukkhañceva paññāpemi, dukkhassa ca nirodhaṃ. (M.22)
Both formerly, monks, and now, it is just suffering that I make known and the ending of suffering.
Pathabyā ekarajjena, saggassa gamanena vā sabbalokādhipaccena, sotāpattiphalaṃ varaṃ. (Dhp 178)
Sole dominion over the earth, going to heaven or lordship over all worlds: the fruit of stream-entry excels them.

:anjali:
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Re: Do we create karma every second

Postby Stephen K » Tue Jun 02, 2009 11:43 am

Thank you!

So Bhante, I take it that the making of karma and experiencing of vipaka do not take place at the same time?
With metta,
Upāsaka Sumana
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Re: Do we create karma every second

Postby Dhammanando » Tue Jun 02, 2009 11:53 am

Stefan wrote:So Bhante, I take it that the making of karma and experiencing of vipaka do not take place at the same time?


Right.
    ...and this thought arose in the mind of the Blessed One:
    “Who lives without reverence lives miserably.”
    Uruvela Sutta, A.ii.20

    It were endless to dispute upon everything that is disputable.
    — William Penn Some Fruits of Solitude,
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Re: Do we create karma every second

Postby Stephen K » Tue Jun 02, 2009 11:58 am

So there are moments where I make new karma and during all the other moments I experience vipaka. I.e., there is no moment without one of these not occuring?
Last edited by Stephen K on Tue Jun 02, 2009 12:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Do we create karma every second

Postby Guy » Tue Jun 02, 2009 12:23 pm

Individual wrote:Guy, let's say that you're driving and you unintentionally pull out in front of oncoming traffic, would that be a karmic action?

...As another example, let's say you're boiling some spaghetti, a droplet of water hits your arm. As a reflex, out of pain, you jerk back your arm, which then hits the cooking pan's handle, which catapults scalding water onto your face. Would this be a karmic action?

...Or let's say that you're a smoker in the 1920's and don't intend to get cancer. Would such smoking be karmic action and would lung cancer be vipaka?

It is important to remember that "intention" did not begin with this life, but the wheel of rebirth itself is supported by intention.


I don't think everything is because of kamma, or is creating new kamma. Sometimes random events effect our lives, sometimes in a big way either positively or negatively, are you suggesting that these seemingly random events are not really random at all?
Four types of letting go:

1) Giving; expecting nothing back in return
2) Throwing things away
3) Contentment; wanting to be here, not wanting to be anywhere else
4) "Teflon Mind"; having a mind which doesn't accumulate things

- Ajahn Brahm
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Re: Do we create karma every second

Postby Dhammanando » Tue Jun 02, 2009 12:42 pm

Hi Stefan,

Stefan wrote:So there are moments where I make new karma and during all the other moments I experience vipaka. I.e., there is no moment without one of these occuring?


Well, actually there are, because not every ethically significant (i.e. wholesome or unwholesome) mental process will be adequate to generate a kamma. For example, in the case of unwholesome mental processes, if they are of too brief a duration or too weak an intensity to bring about any of the akusala kammapaṭha (killing, stealing, sexual misconduct, false speech, divisive speech, harsh speech, frivolous speeech, covetousness, ill will, or wrong view), then they won't create any unwholesome kamma.

Best wishes,
Dhammanando Bhikkhu
    ...and this thought arose in the mind of the Blessed One:
    “Who lives without reverence lives miserably.”
    Uruvela Sutta, A.ii.20

    It were endless to dispute upon everything that is disputable.
    — William Penn Some Fruits of Solitude,
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Re: Do we create karma every second

Postby Stephen K » Tue Jun 02, 2009 12:51 pm

Thank you Bhante. :anjali:
With metta,
Upāsaka Sumana
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Re: Do we create karma every second

Postby Fede » Tue Jun 02, 2009 2:25 pm

Individual wrote:Guy, let's say that you're driving and you unintentionally pull out in front of oncoming traffic, would that be a karmic action?


These are all simply my opinions...ok?
I'm only guessing here, but there is some Kamma involved, because you were not mindful and observant, and your intention was to pull out - which could lead to negative consequences.... so I think there is some negative kamma generated, but not a vast amount....

...As another example, let's say you're boiling some spaghetti, a droplet of water hits your arm. As a reflex, out of pain, you jerk back your arm, which then hits the cooking pan's handle, which catapults scalding water onto your face. Would this be a karmic action?

No, I personally don't think so.
I think you should remember to point the handle inwards though. Any chef will tell you that's common sense.
But if it is a kammic consequence - who could tell? Some may say it was, but I think you just need to get that burn seen to.

And thank the nurse for her patience and gentleness....That can't be a bad thing.....

...Or let's say that you're a smoker in the 1920's and don't intend to get cancer. Would such smoking be karmic action and would lung cancer be vipaka?

No. Cancer would be a consequence of you being an idiot and smoking in the first place. Yech!
However, some people smoke, and don't get cancer.
Other people don't smoke, and DO get cancer.
Again, it's possibly a Kammic consequence, but hypothesis and theorising aren't skillful pastimes....

It is important to remember that "intention" did not begin with this life, but the wheel of rebirth itself is supported by intention.


And all of the above were 'unintentional' so what's your point? That you can stop the wheel 'turning'.....? :quote: :shock:

(I've been dying to use that 'quote' emoticon....! :clap: )
"Samsara: The human condition's heartbreaking inability to sustain contentment." Elizabeth Gilbert, 'Eat, Pray, Love'.

Simplify: 17 into 1 WILL go: Mindfulness!

Quieta movere magna merces videbatur. (Sallust, c.86-c.35 BC)
Translation: Just to stir things up seemed a good reward in itself. ;)

I am sooooo happy - How on earth could I be otherwise?! :D


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Re: Do we create karma every second

Postby Sindre » Tue Jun 02, 2009 4:51 pm

Hi Bhante,
Dhammanando wrote:
Stefan wrote:So there are moments where I make new karma and during all the other moments I experience vipaka. I.e., there is no moment without one of these occuring?


Well, actually there are, because not every ethically significant (i.e. wholesome or unwholesome) mental process will be adequate to generate a kamma. For example, in the case of unwholesome mental processes, if they are of too brief a duration or too weak an intensity to bring about any of the akusala kammapaṭha (killing, stealing, sexual misconduct, false speech, divisive speech, harsh speech, frivolous speeech, covetousness, ill will, or wrong view), then they won't create any unwholesome kamma.


Could we say that since we ar not producing wholesome kamma at these times, that this is an unwholesome result of kamma?
"When, Bahiya, for you in the seen is merely what is seen... in the cognized is merely what is cognized, then, Bahiya, you will not be 'with that.' When, Bahiya, you are not 'with that,' then, Bahiya, you will not be 'in that.' When, Bahiya, you are not 'in that,' then, Bahiya, you will be neither here nor beyond nor in between the two. Just this is the end of suffering."
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