So I just finished the Digha Nikaya and am about to start the Majjhima Nikaya. I came across Bhikkhu Bodhi's lectures on the MN ( http://bodhimonastery.org/a-systematic- ... ikaya.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ) but the suttas there are arranged thematically and not in their proper order.
My question is: should I read the suttas in their true order or should I follow BB's thematic order?
Thanks!
Beginning study of Majjhima Nikaya
- LonesomeYogurt
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Re: Beginning study of Majjhima Nikaya
I may be wrong but I don't think they are arranged in a particularly essential order. It's better to group them thematically.
Gain and loss, status and disgrace,
censure and praise, pleasure and pain:
these conditions among human beings are inconstant,
impermanent, subject to change.
Knowing this, the wise person, mindful,
ponders these changing conditions.
Desirable things don’t charm the mind,
undesirable ones bring no resistance.
His welcoming and rebelling are scattered,
gone to their end,
do not exist.
- Lokavipatti Sutta
Stuff I write about things.
censure and praise, pleasure and pain:
these conditions among human beings are inconstant,
impermanent, subject to change.
Knowing this, the wise person, mindful,
ponders these changing conditions.
Desirable things don’t charm the mind,
undesirable ones bring no resistance.
His welcoming and rebelling are scattered,
gone to their end,
do not exist.
- Lokavipatti Sutta
Stuff I write about things.
- Hickersonia
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- Contact:
Re: Beginning study of Majjhima Nikaya
I'm simply reading it through in the way it is presented. I'll end up having to read the whole thing more than once for it to sink in, anyway. Your results may vary, of course.
Hickersonia
http://hickersonia.wordpress.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of
throwing it at someone else; you are the one getting burned."
http://hickersonia.wordpress.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of
throwing it at someone else; you are the one getting burned."
Re: Beginning study of Majjhima Nikaya
If you are already familiar with the Dhamma and suttas (as you must be if you have finished the DN) it doesn't matter so much what order you read them in. I don't think Bhante's order includes every single sutta, so you would want to make sure you picked up any that you had missed at the end.
On this page
http://readingfaithfully.org/majjhima-n ... -practice/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
There is a slightly modified beginning-to-end order that starts you in the section with similies and puts off reading MN 1 till you have a few under your belt. But this is only necessary if you have never read suttas before.
As Hickersonia said, reading more than once is necessary. For simplicity sake, reading one to 152 is easiest. The traditional order is not completely random so you will see some affinity between suttas that are located together.
But if your plan is to listen to all of Bhante's lectures, then you would want to take them in order.
Because I believe there are few problems that can't be solved by forms, I created a simple checklist a while ago for each of the suttas in the MN. I guess I was thinking it would be useful if someone was reading them out of order. But it could be a case of a solution in search of a problem. Any way, I have attached it. Let me know if it is helpful.
On this page
http://readingfaithfully.org/majjhima-n ... -practice/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
There is a slightly modified beginning-to-end order that starts you in the section with similies and puts off reading MN 1 till you have a few under your belt. But this is only necessary if you have never read suttas before.
As Hickersonia said, reading more than once is necessary. For simplicity sake, reading one to 152 is easiest. The traditional order is not completely random so you will see some affinity between suttas that are located together.
But if your plan is to listen to all of Bhante's lectures, then you would want to take them in order.
Because I believe there are few problems that can't be solved by forms, I created a simple checklist a while ago for each of the suttas in the MN. I guess I was thinking it would be useful if someone was reading them out of order. But it could be a case of a solution in search of a problem. Any way, I have attached it. Let me know if it is helpful.
- Attachments
-
- MajjhimaNikayaChecklist.pdf
- (23.25 KiB) Downloaded 192 times
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- Cittasanto
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Re: Beginning study of Majjhima Nikaya
Hi,
I havn't listened to the lectures, but may I sugest you read the Nikaya before listening to it, it may help you understand what is being said in the wider context of the both the texts and the talks?
I usually find reading cover to cover then by subject is better than the other way round as you have a grasp of the wider scope and pieces can be linked together on occasion for a finer and finer understanding.
I havn't listened to the lectures, but may I sugest you read the Nikaya before listening to it, it may help you understand what is being said in the wider context of the both the texts and the talks?
I usually find reading cover to cover then by subject is better than the other way round as you have a grasp of the wider scope and pieces can be linked together on occasion for a finer and finer understanding.
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.
He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
Re: Beginning study of Majjhima Nikaya
By all means read through the suttas in collection order (or random order, I don't see much significance in the ordering of the MN...)Stefan wrote: My question is: should I read the suttas in their true order or should I follow BB's thematic order?
But to really study them, listen to Bhikkhu Bodhi's lectures. They are brilliant.
You can also find a variety of talks on the MN at the BSWA site:
http://www.dhammaloka.org.au/component/ ... study.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
and here:
http://www.dhammasukha.org/Study/recent.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
When I was working through Bhikkhu Bodhi's talks I also listened to talks from those sites on each sutta, which gave some good perspectives.
I also tried to listen to a reading of the sutta, if available:
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/outsourc ... tml#suttas" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
since suttas are an oral, not written medium...
Mike
Re: Beginning study of Majjhima Nikaya
Thank you all! I will be reading it in its proper order then.
- Cittasanto
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Re: Beginning study of Majjhima Nikaya
I will join you in reading the MajjhimaStefan wrote:Thank you all! I will be reading it in its proper order then.
maybe we could exchange notes on each sutta, when relevant.
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.
He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
- Cittasanto
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Re: Beginning study of Majjhima Nikaya
P.s. I will read MN1 today
EDIT - one on its own and a second time including foot notes
EDIT - one on its own and a second time including foot notes
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.
He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
Re: Beginning study of Majjhima Nikaya
Cool. I was thinking of starting tomorrow (MN 1 - June 1), but if you're starting today then I am too. 1 sutta per day, right?
- retrofuturist
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Re: Beginning study of Majjhima Nikaya
Greetings,
Pleased to hear you're starting with MN 1... it's a very important sutta.
Metta,
Retro.
Pleased to hear you're starting with MN 1... it's a very important sutta.
Metta,
Retro.
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
Re: Beginning study of Majjhima Nikaya
they're all good!
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725
Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global Relief • UNHCR
e: [email protected]..
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725
Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global Relief • UNHCR
e: [email protected]..
- Cittasanto
- Posts: 6646
- Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:31 pm
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Re: Beginning study of Majjhima Nikaya
After reading the sutta then notes individually, I thought every few days, give time to write something about each text and reflect a little on it. and get input from eachother and the group (if that is what you would like to do, as I wouldn't mind that)Stefan wrote:Cool. I was thinking of starting tomorrow (MN 1 - June 1), but if you're starting today then I am too. 1 sutta per day, right?
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.
He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
Re: Beginning study of Majjhima Nikaya
I agree. I remember talking to a Western monk in Bangkok many years ago. He said that in his opinion the two most important suttas in the Tipitaka were the Mahasatipatthanasutta and MN 1. The first describes the way, and the second describes the result. I tend to agree with him.retrofuturist wrote:Greetings,
Pleased to hear you're starting with MN 1... it's a very important sutta.
Metta,
Retro.
MN 1 is not among the easiest text to read and to understand, however. Some background from other suttas may be of use. But the most important factor for understanding MN 1 is meditative experience.
Mettāya,
Kåre
Kåre
Re: Beginning study of Majjhima Nikaya
Path Press has a link to Ven. Ñanamoli's draft translantion of the Mulapariyayasutta.
http://pathpress.wordpress.com/2012/05/ ... sutta-111/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
While I think Ven. Bodhi has done an admirable job in revising Ñanamoli's work to make it accessible to those with a more conventional approach to the Dhamma, I suspect a lot of the phenomenological nuance was lost.
http://pathpress.wordpress.com/2012/05/ ... sutta-111/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
While I think Ven. Bodhi has done an admirable job in revising Ñanamoli's work to make it accessible to those with a more conventional approach to the Dhamma, I suspect a lot of the phenomenological nuance was lost.
"Dhammā=Ideas. This is the clue to much of the Buddha's teaching." ~ Ven. Ñanavira, Commonplace Book