4 Noble Truths

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4 Noble Truths

Postby Wesley1982 » Thu May 31, 2012 4:02 am

I'm a beginner but here goes ~ from -What the Buddha taught- by Walpola Rahula.

The heart of Buddha's teaching lies in the Four Noble Truths (Cattari
Ariyasaccani) which he expounded in his very first sermon to his old colleagues, the
five ascetics, at Isipatana (modern Sarnath) near Benares. In this sermon, as we have
it in the original texts, these four Truths are given briefly. But there are innumerable
places in the early buddhist scriptures where they are explained again and again,
with greater detail and in different ways. If we study the Four Noble Truths with the
help of these references and explanations, we get a fairly good and accurate
account of the essential teachings of the Buddha according to the original texts.
The Four noble Truths are:
1. Dukkha
2. Samudaya, the arisingor origin of dukkha
3. Nirodha, the cessation of dukkha
4. Megga, the way leading to the cessation of dukkha
. . .
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Re: 4 Noble Truths

Postby Wesley1982 » Thu May 31, 2012 5:25 pm

What are some common mistakes that beginners make?
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Re: 4 Noble Truths

Postby hanzze_ » Fri Jun 01, 2012 2:30 am

That they believe, that they are beginners and feel insecure. That is a very good book, it just needs its time and field experiences. Just try to watch it.
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Re: 4 Noble Truths

Postby ground » Fri Jun 01, 2012 2:40 am

The term "truth" may be perceived inappropriately.
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Re: 4 Noble Truths

Postby hanzze_ » Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:03 am

Did you find that out for your self? Or is that just general mistrust in regard of the eightfold path.
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Re: 4 Noble Truths

Postby ground » Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:07 am

To my knowledge "may be" stands for a possibility. In the context of statements of the kind "that may be so or so" the meaning is suggestive.
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Re: 4 Noble Truths

Postby hanzze_ » Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:21 am

Starting with developing doubt of the four noble truth is not the way of this tradition and according to this traditions, spending times with people who have doubt in fundamental principles would not be useful to reach the stream. Its a more secure and more responsible way that is used here.
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Re: 4 Noble Truths

Postby ground » Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:28 am

Yes. There should not be any doubt about the appropriate perception of the term "truth".
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Re: 4 Noble Truths

Postby hanzze_ » Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:39 am

Whether you doubt or not, perceptions are used to find one day behind them. That's the way of beings. To cut of the tool first is more a method of some who like to keep their ways as they are. That is also a way of having a feeling of release, but its not lasting.
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Re: 4 Noble Truths

Postby Cittasanto » Fri Jun 01, 2012 7:05 am

Wesley1982 wrote:What are some common mistakes that beginners make?

In regard to the four Noble Truths
the first is sometimes understood to say "life is suffering."
when it doesnt, it says "there is suffering."
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
With Metta
Upāsaka Cittasanto
Blog, - Some Suttas Translated, Ajahn Chah.
"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."
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Re: 4 Noble Truths

Postby hanzze_ » Fri Jun 01, 2012 7:35 am

I guess this is maybe a good overview The Four Noble Truths - A Study Guide in addition to what you know already from the book "What the Buddha taught- by Walpola Rahula".
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Re: 4 Noble Truths

Postby David N. Snyder » Sat Jun 02, 2012 4:44 am

Wesley1982 wrote:What are some common mistakes that beginners make?


In regard to 4 Noble Truths and practice, two common mistakes (imo):

1. That all desire is okay if in moderation
2. That all desire is bad, even desire for enlightenment

All desires are not okay, even if in moderation. Middle Way doesn't mean a little of this and a little of that. A 'little' bit of poison or a little bit of killing is not okay.

There are wholesome things such as the brahma viharas, attaining enlightenment, etc. Chandha refers to a wholesome desire or intent. Tanha is the one with thirst / craving, such as for sense pleasure.
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Re: 4 Noble Truths

Postby jason c » Sat Jun 02, 2012 11:11 am

Cittasanto wrote:
Wesley1982 wrote:What are some common mistakes that beginners make?

In regard to the four Noble Truths
the first is sometimes understood to say "life is suffering."
when it doesnt, it says "there is suffering."


i've come to understand there is no difference in these two statements
metta
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Re: 4 Noble Truths

Postby hanzze_ » Sat Jun 02, 2012 12:20 pm

Dear Jason,

that could easily lead to nihilism or aversion against live, there is no problem with life, there is just becoming (birth) and it's cause which makes life to something that is suffering.
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Re: 4 Noble Truths

Postby jason c » Sat Jun 02, 2012 1:18 pm

hanzze_ wrote:Dear Jason,

that could easily lead to nihilism or aversion against live, there is no problem with life, there is just becoming (birth) and it's cause which makes life to something that is suffering.


dear hanzze,

life=suffering=samsara=dukka=nama-rupa=mind-body=energy-matter. these all represent a combination of pure mind and matter(or body) the buddhas teachings lead to an experience of pure mind alone free from body and ultimately the cessation of pure mind(nibbana or truth ). if one choses to view this as nihilistic then this would not be right understanding.
metta,
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Re: 4 Noble Truths

Postby hanzze_ » Sat Jun 02, 2012 1:37 pm

Dear Jason,

Can you explain that a little more: "these all represent a combination of pure mind and matter(or body) the buddhas teachings lead to an experience of pure mind alone free from body and ultimately the cessation of pure mind(nibbana or truth )." Somehow I have the feeling that there is a eternalistic view hidden in a nihilistic. Do we need to lose the body first?
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Re: 4 Noble Truths

Postby Cittasanto » Sat Jun 02, 2012 2:03 pm

jason c wrote:
Cittasanto wrote:
Wesley1982 wrote:What are some common mistakes that beginners make?

In regard to the four Noble Truths
the first is sometimes understood to say "life is suffering."
when it doesnt, it says "there is suffering."


i've come to understand there is no difference in these two statements
metta
jason

Well the meaning the two statements conveys is different, 'Life is suffering' leans toward aversion, 'There is suffering' leans toward not taking things personally, non-grasping.
Also Suffering is a poor translation for Dukkha which more litterally means unsatisfactoriness; but common usage is suffering so a reasonably acceptable term to use although my preference is Stress as used by Thanissaro Bhikkhu.
:focus:
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
With Metta
Upāsaka Cittasanto
Blog, - Some Suttas Translated, Ajahn Chah.
"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."
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Re: 4 Noble Truths

Postby dhammapal » Fri Jun 08, 2012 11:25 am

A common mistake beginners make is to think that all desire is craving (tanha) to be abandoned according to the Second Noble Truth. Other desire (chanda) comes under Right Effort in the Fourth Noble Truth.
Ven P.A. Payutto wrote:Contentment

While not technically an economic concern, I would like to add a few comments on the subject of contentment. Contentment is a virtue that has often been misunderstood and, as it relates to consumption and satisfaction, it seems to merit some discussion.

The tacit objective of economics is a dynamic economy where every demand and desire is supplied and constantly renewed in a never-ending and ever-growing cycle. The entire mechanism is fueled by tanha. From the Buddhist perspective, this tireless search to satisfy desires is itself a kind of suffering. Buddhism proposes the cessation of this kind of desire, or contentment, as a more skillful objective.

Traditional economists would probably counter that without desire, the whole economy would grind to a halt. However, this is based on a misunderstanding of the nature of contentment. People misunderstand contentment because they fail to distinguish between the two different kinds of desire, tanha and chanda. We lump them together, and in proposing contentment, dismiss them both. A contented person comes to be seen as one who wants nothing at all. Here lies our mistake.

Obviously, people who are content will have fewer wants than those who are discontent. However, a correct definition of contentment must be qualified by the stipulation that it implies only the absence of artificial want, that is tanha; chanda, the desire for true well-being, remains. In other words, the path to true contentment involves reducing the artificial desire for sense-pleasure, while actively encouraging and supporting the desire for quality of life.

These two processes -- reducing tanha and encouraging chanda -- are mutually supportive. When we are easily satisfied in material things, we save time and energy that might otherwise be wasted on seeking objects of tanha. The time and energy we save can, in turn, be applied to the development of well-being, which is the objective of chanda. When it comes to developing skillful conditions, however, contentment is not a beneficial quality. Skillful conditions must be realized through effort. Too much contentment with regards to chanda easily turns into complacency and apathy. In this connection, the Buddha pointed out that his own attainment of enlightenment was largely a result of two qualities: unremitting effort, and lack of contentment with skillful conditions. [D.III.214; A.I.50; Dhs. 8, 234]
From: Buddhist Economics: A Middle Way for the Market Place by Ven P.A. Payutto

With metta / dhammapal.
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Re: 4 Noble Truths

Postby Wesley1982 » Tue Jul 17, 2012 9:49 pm

Does the eight spokes of the Dhamma wheel represent the Eight-Fold Path?..
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Re: 4 Noble Truths

Postby reflection » Tue Jul 17, 2012 9:55 pm

Wesley1982 wrote:What are some common mistakes that beginners make?

To want to have the 3rd, but forget to do the 4th.

Does the eight spokes of the Dhamma wheel represent the Eight-Fold Path?..

Yes. Perhaps it can also represent other things, but that's what I know it by.
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