YOU CANNOT POST. OUR WEB HOSTING COMPANY DECIDED TO MOVE THE SERVER TO ANOTHER LOCATION. IN THE MEANTIME, YOU CAN VIEW THIS VERSION WHICH DOES NOT ALLOW POSTING AND WILL NOT SAVE ANYTHING YOU DO ONCE THE OTHER SERVER GOES ONLINE.

How to handle doubts (vicikicchā)? - Dhamma Wheel

How to handle doubts (vicikicchā)?

General discussion of issues related to Theravada Meditation, e.g. meditation postures, developing a regular sitting practice, skillfully relating to difficulties and hindrances, etc.
User avatar
acinteyyo
Posts: 1684
Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2009 9:48 am
Location: Bavaria / Germany

How to handle doubts (vicikicchā)?

Postby acinteyyo » Wed Jun 03, 2009 8:06 am

Hi,
I meditate (ānāpānasati) almost daily for about 1 year now, since I visited the Muttodaya Forest Monastery in Germany. I think I'm quite sure how do deal with sakkāyaditthi (personality?) and sílabbataparāmāsa (clinging to rules and rites) but there are moments from time to time where I'm in doubt. I don't doubt the dhamma but rather whether I do things right or not. So I'm rather in doubt whether my practice leads in the "right" direction.
Does anyone have some advice, please? Should I comprise these doubts into contemplation? or suppress? or just further letting go?
:thanks: and
:namaste:
Thag 1.20. Ajita - I do not fear death; nor do I long for life. I’ll lay down this body, aware and mindful.

User avatar
Fede
Posts: 1182
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:33 pm
Location: The Heart of this "Green & Pleasant Land"...
Contact:

Re: How to handle doubts (vicikicchā)?

Postby Fede » Wed Jun 03, 2009 9:10 am

From my humble point of view (and I have used this analogy before) I think it important to ascertain a Middle Way and be like the well-tuned guitar string... neither too tight (highly-strung, and over-exerted), nor too slack (laid back and non-committal)....

It is better to not be to self-critical, but evaluate progress and accept days when you will do really well, and days when you fall over, and need to pick up again...If you keep evaluating your own 'performance', there is also the problem that you may begin pandering to an undesirable 'Egoic' state...

It's OK.

Observe the Eightfold Path, and simply look at what you do in a non-judgemental way.

I wish you well.

:namaste:
"Samsara: The human condition's heartbreaking inability to sustain contentment." Elizabeth Gilbert, 'Eat, Pray, Love'.

Simplify: 17 into 1 WILL go: Mindfulness!

Quieta movere magna merces videbatur. (Sallust, c.86-c.35 BC)
Translation: Just to stir things up seemed a good reward in itself. ;)

I am sooooo happy - How on earth could I be otherwise?! :D


http://www.armchairadvice.co.uk/relationships/forum/

User avatar
cooran
Posts: 8502
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2009 11:32 pm
Location: Queensland, Australia

Re: How to handle doubts (vicikicchā)?

Postby cooran » Wed Jun 03, 2009 9:26 am

---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

MMK23
Posts: 60
Joined: Wed May 06, 2009 2:38 pm

Re: How to handle doubts (vicikicchā)?

Postby MMK23 » Wed Jun 03, 2009 10:49 am


User avatar
acinteyyo
Posts: 1684
Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2009 9:48 am
Location: Bavaria / Germany

Re: How to handle doubts (vicikicchā)?

Postby acinteyyo » Wed Jun 03, 2009 12:01 pm

Thag 1.20. Ajita - I do not fear death; nor do I long for life. I’ll lay down this body, aware and mindful.

User avatar
acinteyyo
Posts: 1684
Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2009 9:48 am
Location: Bavaria / Germany

Re: How to handle doubts (vicikicchā)?

Postby acinteyyo » Wed Jun 03, 2009 12:08 pm

Thag 1.20. Ajita - I do not fear death; nor do I long for life. I’ll lay down this body, aware and mindful.

User avatar
acinteyyo
Posts: 1684
Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2009 9:48 am
Location: Bavaria / Germany

Re: How to handle doubts (vicikicchā)?

Postby acinteyyo » Wed Jun 03, 2009 12:11 pm

Thag 1.20. Ajita - I do not fear death; nor do I long for life. I’ll lay down this body, aware and mindful.

User avatar
kc2dpt
Posts: 957
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 3:48 pm

Re: How to handle doubts (vicikicchā)?

Postby kc2dpt » Wed Jun 03, 2009 2:57 pm

- Peter


User avatar
Jechbi
Posts: 1268
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 3:38 am
Contact:

Re: How to handle doubts (vicikicchā)?

Postby Jechbi » Wed Jun 03, 2009 3:48 pm


User avatar
acinteyyo
Posts: 1684
Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2009 9:48 am
Location: Bavaria / Germany

Re: How to handle doubts (vicikicchā)?

Postby acinteyyo » Wed Jun 03, 2009 11:27 pm

Thag 1.20. Ajita - I do not fear death; nor do I long for life. I’ll lay down this body, aware and mindful.

User avatar
acinteyyo
Posts: 1684
Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2009 9:48 am
Location: Bavaria / Germany

Re: How to handle doubts (vicikicchā)?

Postby acinteyyo » Wed Jun 03, 2009 11:31 pm

Thag 1.20. Ajita - I do not fear death; nor do I long for life. I’ll lay down this body, aware and mindful.

User avatar
Dhammanando
Posts: 3521
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:44 pm
Location: Huai Bong, Lamphun

Re: How to handle doubts (vicikicchā)?

Postby Dhammanando » Thu Jun 04, 2009 7:37 pm


User avatar
Dhammanando
Posts: 3521
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:44 pm
Location: Huai Bong, Lamphun

Re: How to handle doubts (vicikicchā)?

Postby Dhammanando » Thu Jun 04, 2009 7:50 pm

One further remark:

What I wrote in my last post concerns Sutta usage. In the Abhidhamma, however, vicikicchā is never wholesome or neutral, but is always an unwholesome mental factor. The question sometimes arises as to how to reconcile the abhidhammic claim that vicikicchā is always bad with those sutta passages in which this seems not to be the case. One does so as follows:

1. When vicikicchā is being commended in the Suttas, it is to be understood as referring to the mental factor of understanding (paññā), with the Buddha using the word 'vicikicchā' merely to conform to common worldly usage.

2. Ethically indifferent doubt, such as wondering how to get to Rājagaha when one arrives at a crossroad, is referred to as a "counterfeit of a hindrance". Abhidhammically this is described not in terms of the presence of the mental factor of vicikicchā, but rather, in terms of the absence of the mental factor of decision (adhimokkha).

Best wishes,
Dhammanando Bhikkhu

User avatar
cooran
Posts: 8502
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2009 11:32 pm
Location: Queensland, Australia

Re: How to handle doubts (vicikicchā)?

Postby cooran » Thu Jun 04, 2009 7:54 pm

Hello Ajahn,

Thanks for your post. I was using Ven. Nyanatiloka's Buddhist Dictionary as a basis in the above definition of kankhā.

This is what he states about vicikicchā: ~ 'sceptical doubt', is one of the 5 mental hindrances (nīvarana) and one of the 3 fetters (samyojana), which disappear for ever at Stream-entry, the first stage of holiness (s. ariya-puggala).
As a fetter, it refers to sceptical doubt about the Master (the Buddha), the Teaching, the Sangha, and the training; about things past and future, and conditionality (Dhs.1004; cf. A.X.71).
It also applies to uncertainty whether things are wholesome or not, to be practiced or not, of high or low value, etc.
According to Vis.M. XIV, 177, vicikicchā is the lack of desire to think (things out i.e. to come to a conclusion; vigata-cikicchā, desiderative to Ö cit, to think); it has the nature of wavering, and its manifestation is indecision and a divided attitude; its proximate cause is unwise attention to matters of doubt.
It is associated with one of the 2 classes of unwholesome consciousness rooted in delusion (Tab. I, No. 32). - See also kankhā.

metta and respect,
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

User avatar
bodom
Posts: 5713
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 6:18 pm
Location: San Antonio, Texas

Re: How to handle doubts (vicikicchā)?

Postby bodom » Mon Jun 08, 2009 12:58 am

Questions & Answers with Ajahn Chah

Q: What can I do about doubts? Some days I'm plagued with doubts about the practice or my own progress, or the teacher.

Answer: Doubting is natural. Everyone starts out with doubts. You can learn a great deal from them. What is important is that you don't identify with your doubts: that is, don't get caught up in them. This will spin your mind in endless circles. Instead, watch the whole process of doubting, of wondering. See who it is that doubts. See how doubts come and go. Then you will no longer be victimized by your doubts. You will step outside of them and your mind will be quiet. You can see how all things come and go. Just let go of what you are attached to. Let go of your doubts and simply watch. This is how to end doubting.

:anjali:
To study is to know the texts,
To practice is to know your defilements,
To attain the goal is to know and let go.

- Ajahn Lee Dhammadharo


With mindfulness immersed in the body
well established, restrained
with regard to the six media of contact,
always centered, the monk
can know Unbinding for himself.

- Ud 3.5


https://www.dhammatalks.org/index.html
http://www.ajahnchah.org/

User avatar
acinteyyo
Posts: 1684
Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2009 9:48 am
Location: Bavaria / Germany

Re: How to handle doubts (vicikicchā)?

Postby acinteyyo » Mon Jun 08, 2009 6:16 pm

:thanks:
Thag 1.20. Ajita - I do not fear death; nor do I long for life. I’ll lay down this body, aware and mindful.

rowyourboat
Posts: 1952
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 5:29 pm
Location: London, UK

Re: How to handle doubts (vicikicchā)?

Postby rowyourboat » Thu Jun 11, 2009 12:53 pm

dear friend

Silabbataparamasa, sakkayaditti and vicikicca are all interconnected and cannot be eradicated one after the next -it cannot be done intentionally but with the progress of insight it will happen on its own.

seeing mental and material (nama rupa) components of our every experience, the yogi starts seeing how they interact in a cause-effect manner. Hence the reality that we observe now is severely undermined to a point where everything seems like a mirage. Such 'seeing' required dedicated practice, most likely in a retreat setting, even though many achieve this at home.

From that point on wards the yogi is clear that there is no self, that everything is impermanent and unsatisfactory. Then he goes further into states of revulsion/disenchantment, dispassion and cessation until the release ('magga-phala') moment occurs. Some with deep concentration and jhanas attain 'fruition' states (phala samawatha) where they can re-experience the nibbana states.

You might want to read this:

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... gress.html

I felt I should respond to you because this can be very confusing otherwise

with metta and wishing you well on the path

RYB
With Metta

Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha

User avatar
Gahapati
Posts: 1
Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2009 4:07 pm
Location: Hamburg, Germany

Re: How to handle doubts (vicikicchā)?

Postby Gahapati » Mon Jul 20, 2009 3:18 pm

»Ye dhammā hetuppabhavā
tesam hetum tathāgato āha
tesañca yo nirodho
evamvādī mahāsamano«

User avatar
acinteyyo
Posts: 1684
Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2009 9:48 am
Location: Bavaria / Germany

Re: How to handle doubts (vicikicchā)?

Postby acinteyyo » Fri Jul 24, 2009 1:41 pm

Vielen Dank für den Hinweis.
Thanks for the advice.
Thag 1.20. Ajita - I do not fear death; nor do I long for life. I’ll lay down this body, aware and mindful.


Return to “General Theravāda Meditation”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests

Google Saffron, Theravada Search Engine