Dhammapada verse 279

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tiltbillings
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Dhammapada verse 279

Post by tiltbillings »

bodom wrote: I also enjoyed his Dhammapada translation:

The Dhammapada: Verses on the Way
http://www.amazon.com/The-Dhammapada-Ve ... 0679643079" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

:anjai:
Tell us what his translation of 279 is.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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retrofuturist
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Re: What Dhamma Book are you reading right now?

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings Tilt,
tiltbillings wrote:Tell us what his translation of 279 is.
Is that your Dhammapada litmus test? (Mine's 1-2)

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
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tiltbillings
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Re: What Dhamma Book are you reading right now?

Post by tiltbillings »

retrofuturist wrote:Greetings Tilt,
tiltbillings wrote:Tell us what his translation of 279 is.
Is that your Dhammapada litmus test? (Mine's 1-2)

Metta,
Retro. :)
1 and 2, as well.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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bodom
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Re: What Dhamma Book are you reading right now?

Post by bodom »

tiltbillings wrote:
bodom wrote: I also enjoyed his Dhammapada translation:

The Dhammapada: Verses on the Way
http://www.amazon.com/The-Dhammapada-Ve ... 0679643079" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

:anjai:
Tell us what his translation of 279 is.
Here you are tilt:
When through insight a person sees
all fabrications are nonsubstantial,
then in pain he turns away.
This is the path to purication.
:anjali:
Liberation is the inevitable fruit of the path and is bound to blossom forth when there is steady and persistent practice. The only requirements for reaching the final goal are two: to start and to continue. If these requirements are met there is no doubt the goal will be attained. This is the Dhamma, the undeviating law.

- BB
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retrofuturist
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Re: What Dhamma Book are you reading right now?

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings,

Sounds like a "dark night" translation.

:rofl:

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
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tiltbillings
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Re: What Dhamma Book are you reading right now?

Post by tiltbillings »

bodom wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:
bodom wrote: I also enjoyed his Dhammapada translation:

The Dhammapada: Verses on the Way
http://www.amazon.com/The-Dhammapada-Ve ... 0679643079" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

:anjai:
Tell us what his translation of 279 is.
Here you are tilt:
When through insight a person sees
all fabrications are nonsubstantial,
then in pain he turns away.
This is the path to purication.
:anjali:
I have the book, and in reading that passage, I looked at at his commentary on that chapter, and there was othing oin it to clarify his translation of this passage. I shut the book. It does not sit on my shelf with my other Pali stuff.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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tiltbillings
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Re: What Dhamma Book are you reading right now?

Post by tiltbillings »

retrofuturist wrote:Greetings,

Sounds like a "dark night" translation.

:rofl:

Metta,
Retro. :)
Probably not.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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bodom
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Re: What Dhamma Book are you reading right now?

Post by bodom »

tiltbillings wrote:
retrofuturist wrote:Greetings Tilt,
tiltbillings wrote:Tell us what his translation of 279 is.
Is that your Dhammapada litmus test? (Mine's 1-2)

Metta,
Retro. :)
1 and 2, as well.
Verses 1 and 2 as well:
Preceded by mind
are phenomena,
led by mind,
formed by mind.
If with mind polluted
one speaks or acts,
then pain follows,
as a wheel follows
the draft ox's foot.

Preceded by mind
are phenomena,
led by mind,
formed by mind.
If with mind pure
one speaks or acts,
then ease follows,
as an ever present shadow.
:anjali:
Liberation is the inevitable fruit of the path and is bound to blossom forth when there is steady and persistent practice. The only requirements for reaching the final goal are two: to start and to continue. If these requirements are met there is no doubt the goal will be attained. This is the Dhamma, the undeviating law.

- BB
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retrofuturist
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Re: What Dhamma Book are you reading right now?

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings Bodom, all,

I thought his Dhp 1-2 were very good (possibly even the best I've read), but don't like the "in pain he turns away" aspect of Dhp 278, which is what I suggested sounded rather "dark night"-ish (i.e. seeing a glimpse of the truth causing pain). Compare with...
Buddharakkhita wrote:when one sees this with wisdom, one turns away from suffering
Thanissaro wrote:When you see with discernment... you grow disenchanted with stress.
Thanks for sharing - it goes to show the value of reviewing multiple translations.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
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tiltbillings
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Re: What Dhamma Book are you reading right now?

Post by tiltbillings »

retrofuturist wrote:Greetings Bodom, all,

I thought his Dhp 1-2 were very good (possibly even the best I've read), but don't like the "in pain he turns away" aspect of Dhp 278, which is what I suggested sounded rather "dark night"-ish (i.e. seeing a glimpse of the truth causing pain.
That is minor. The real problem is:


all fabrications are nonsubstantial,
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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retrofuturist
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Re: What Dhamma Book are you reading right now?

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings,
Dhp 277-279 wrote:"Sabbe sankhara anicca" ti
yada pannaya passati
atha nibbindati dukkhe
esa maggo visuddhiya.

"Sabbe sankhara dukkha" ti
yada pannaya passati
atha nibbindati dukkhe
esa maggo visuddhiya.

"Sabbe sankhara anatta" ti
yada pannaya passati
atha nibbindati dukkhe
esa maggo visuddhiya.
Source: http://www.tipitaka.net/tipitaka/dhp/ve ... ?verse=277" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"All fabrications" sounds alright for "sabbe sankhara"... it's the non-substantial that looks needlessly interpretive to me.

(Apologies if this is going off-topic somewhat - perhaps a mod might like to split the topic at a suitable juncture?)

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
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tiltbillings
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Re: What Dhamma Book are you reading right now?

Post by tiltbillings »

retrofuturist wrote:Greetings,
Dhp 277-279 wrote:"Sabbe sankhara anicca" ti
yada pannaya passati
atha nibbindati dukkhe
esa maggo visuddhiya.

"Sabbe sankhara dukkha" ti
yada pannaya passati
atha nibbindati dukkhe
esa maggo visuddhiya.

"Sabbe sankhara anatta" ti
yada pannaya passati
atha nibbindati dukkhe
esa maggo visuddhiya.
"All fabrications" sounds alright for "sabbe sankhara"... it's the non-substantial that looks needlessly interpretive to me.

(Apologies if this is going off-topic somewhat - perhaps a mod might like to split the topic at a suitable juncture?)

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Sabba dhamma" is in all the Pali versions of the Dhp 279 I have ever seen.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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Re: What Dhamma Book are you reading right now?

Post by LonesomeYogurt »

tiltbillings wrote:"Sabba dhamma" is in all the Pali versions of the Dhp 279 I have ever seen.
I just checked in my Pali version and I saw it as "sabba sankhara" as well. An online check reveals some having "sabba dhamma" and some having "sabba sankhara." I'm not sure what the discrepancy can be traced to?
Gain and loss, status and disgrace,
censure and praise, pleasure and pain:
these conditions among human beings are inconstant,
impermanent, subject to change.

Knowing this, the wise person, mindful,
ponders these changing conditions.
Desirable things don’t charm the mind,
undesirable ones bring no resistance.

His welcoming and rebelling are scattered,
gone to their end,
do not exist.
- Lokavipatti Sutta

Stuff I write about things.
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tiltbillings
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Re: What Dhamma Book are you reading right now?

Post by tiltbillings »

LonesomeYogurt wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:"Sabba dhamma" is in all the Pali versions of the Dhp 279 I have ever seen.
I just checked in my Pali version and I saw it as "sabba sankhara" as well. An online check reveals some having "sabba dhamma" and some having "sabba sankhara." I'm not sure what the discrepancy can be traced to?
Well, the PTS version is sabbe dhamma, the commentary to Dhp 279 is sabbe dhamma, the Gandhari Dharmapada is sabba dhamma (sarvi dhama anatva), the CSCD Pali Canon version is sabbe dhamma.

Now, if we look here we find "sabba sankhara anatta":

http://www.tipitaka.net/tipitaka/dhp/ve ... ?verse=277" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

But then we see: 'Verse 279: "All phenomena (dhammas) are without Self" . . . .' Oooops. I wonder if "sabba sankhara anatta" was a mistake that was never corrected and now it has a life of its own. One would think that if "sabba sankhara anatta" were an actual variant reading, it would get mentioned in the various scholarly books on the Dhammapada, but I have never seen it mentioned.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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Re: What Dhamma Book are you reading right now?

Post by mikenz66 »

Dhamma also in the Narada version:
http://www.metta.lk/english/Narada/20-Magga%20Vagga.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

:anjali:
Mike
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