Copyright on the Dhamma

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
Maarten2
Posts: 21
Joined: Sun Jun 03, 2012 8:21 pm

Copyright on the Dhamma

Post by Maarten2 »

Hi,

I just stumbled upon this discussion board and have been reading though some posts here. I must say I am impressed by the quality of the discussion.

I also read the discussion regarding copyright and the second precept. This made we wonder about a related question: How is it possible the translations of Buddhist texts are copyrighted material?

For instance the translation of the Samyutta Nikaya by Bhikkhu Bodhi costs $59.85 on Amazon (that is actually a special offer, the list price is $95) and even the kindle edition, an ebook that costs the publisher nothing to print, of the same book costs $48.29. I believe that the Dhamma should be free to read for everyone, and not only an elite who can afford to pay for it.

Even the material that is spread free of charge on accesstoinsight.org does not allow to publish a modified version; for example to correct mistakes or to translate it languages other than English. See also this blog post by Yuttadhammo Bhikkhu: Cease and Desist Spreading Our Dhamma.

English is the world's most spoken language. I feel that if a good English public domain translation of the suttas, would help the spread and the understanding of the Dhamma.

Does anybody know why Wisdom Publications (a non-profit) does not release it's translations as public domain (I assume they are the copyright holder)? Do other people also feel as strongly about this as I do? Maybe it would be possible to start an appeal to Wisdom Publications to release it into the public domain. It think it would also be beneficial for them in the long term (both kammawise and financially). If they are not willing to do so, maybe they would be willing to sell it and a fund could be started to buy-out the copyright for it.

With metta
May you all become enlightened.
plwk
Posts: 1462
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2010 5:14 am

Re: Copyright on the Dhamma

Post by plwk »

If these homegrown discussions are of any assistance... 1 2 3 4 5 6
Maarten2
Posts: 21
Joined: Sun Jun 03, 2012 8:21 pm

Re: Copyright on the Dhamma

Post by Maarten2 »

I have skimmed those discussions, but I hope you understand that I could not read every post. Could you be so kind and point me to specific answers to my question? Note that it is not an inquiry about copyright law or morality, but more about whether there is a chance that the copyright holders of those translations would release them in the public domain, either in exchange for money or good kamma.
May you all become enlightened.
User avatar
Hanzze
Posts: 1906
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2010 12:47 pm
Location: Cambodia

Re: Copyright on the Dhamma

Post by Hanzze »

Maarten2,

there are many who do not much respect what was taught, even they live from it, to say putting "higher proposes" over the teachings themselves (virtue). The thing is, one does not need to take part on it. But as long as one is in a ordinary mundane circle, money or other back-gifts are well used to keep dept and gratitude balanced. Sometimes payment is also a first step to teach gratitude, thinking on the countless Dhamma-vampiers who would never have the idea to pay something back, who would grow heavier and heavier till they are pulled down by their dept. So there are also those adequate to mundane ways, who sell paper, something we can look at and touch.

It's always important to see things from one's own intention and Dhamma does not carry any rights (like in this case: "I have the right to get Dhamma" or "Dhamma must be free"). If your situation gives you access to given Dhamma or not, depends also on your own merits. That is why practice starts with Dana. Not only to learn letting go of possession, but also to make the possibility for being able to receive bigger.

To understand the way it was thought of the Buddha (a wheel out of worldly dept) this two essays are very useful:

No Strings Attached - The Buddha's Culture of Generosity
The Economy of Gifts

Thing's one really owns, one would not sell, because he would know that they are not buy-able and to cheat (or in-honest livelihood) is far away of his intention.
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
User avatar
Hanzze
Posts: 1906
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2010 12:47 pm
Location: Cambodia

Re: Copyright on the Dhamma

Post by Hanzze »

And also much "stolen", so it's always good to take only what is freely given. *smile*
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
santa100
Posts: 6811
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2011 10:55 pm

Re: Copyright on the Dhamma

Post by santa100 »

Well, I'll take some kammic stone for the sake of many poor people who can't afford the books then... :tongue:
Maarten2
Posts: 21
Joined: Sun Jun 03, 2012 8:21 pm

Re: Copyright on the Dhamma

Post by Maarten2 »

Megaupload.com has been seized by the FBI.
May you all become enlightened.
User avatar
tiltbillings
Posts: 23046
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am

Re: Copyright on the Dhamma

Post by tiltbillings »

Maarten2 wrote:
Does anybody know why Wisdom Publications (a non-profit) does not release it's translations as public domain (I assume they are the copyright holder)?
Are you going to help Wisdom Publications with the cost of this?
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
santa100
Posts: 6811
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2011 10:55 pm

Re: Copyright on the Dhamma

Post by santa100 »

Maarten2 wrote:
"Megaupload.com has been seized by the FBI"

That's too bad. Anyway, http://www.accesstoinsight.org" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; should have a majority of the suttas. For those that it misses, try http://tipitaka.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; for the rest of them. Enjoy..
User avatar
tiltbillings
Posts: 23046
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am

Re: Copyright on the Dhamma

Post by tiltbillings »

santa100 wrote:Maarten2 wrote:
"Megaupload.com has been seized by the FBI"

That's too bad.
No, it is not.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
Maarten2
Posts: 21
Joined: Sun Jun 03, 2012 8:21 pm

Re: Copyright on the Dhamma

Post by Maarten2 »

Hanzze wrote:It's always important to see things from one's own intention and Dhamma does not carry any rights
I don't claim any rights and I don't want to put any blame on other people. I do understand why translations have been protected by copyright historically: publishing books used to be costly and these books were published by non-profits. Copyright prevents anyone from reprinting the same book for a profit.

Times have changed, however, one little USB stick can hold what used to fill libraries and books can be published online at virtually for no cost. Therefore, it is not beneficial that translations of Buddhist scriptures are protected by copyright anymore. As Buddhist non-profits I don't think they would be deaf this.
May you all become enlightened.
daverupa
Posts: 5980
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 6:58 pm

Re: Copyright on the Dhamma

Post by daverupa »

Maarten2 wrote:publishing books used to be costly... Times have changed, however
Well, not really. It is myopic to think that the paper and glue are the sole costs in producing quality texts which involve skilled translations of various linguistic subtleties.
Last edited by daverupa on Tue Jun 05, 2012 3:35 pm, edited 2 times in total.
  • "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.

- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
User avatar
tiltbillings
Posts: 23046
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am

Re: Copyright on the Dhamma

Post by tiltbillings »

Maarten2 wrote:
I don't think this is true in this age anymore, where one little USB stick can hold what used to fill libraries and books can be published online at virtually for no cost, it is not beneficial that translations of Buddhist scriptures are protected by copyright. As Buddhist non-profits I don't think they would be deaf this
I suggest that you put in the effort to carefully learn Pali with a qualified teacher so that you do not make the mistakes of the self-taught. You can expect maybe 5 or so years of intense learning before your can start to translate on a competent level, and then you can translate the texts, making them free for everyone. I wonder what the cost of all that would be?
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
Maarten2
Posts: 21
Joined: Sun Jun 03, 2012 8:21 pm

Re: Copyright on the Dhamma

Post by Maarten2 »

tiltbillings wrote:Are you going to help Wisdom Publications with the cost of this?
I assume you mean the losses they would incur by selling less books (because the direct cost (legal or hosting for the files) would be neglectable)? I don't necessarily think there have to be any. People who buy paper back editions now, will still buy them even if they available online and if more people learn about the Dhamma more people will buy books about Buddhism in general. However, like it said earlier another idea might be to setup a fund to compensate them, I would definitely be willing to donate for such a cause.
tiltbillings wrote:No, it is not.
U.S. District court, whatever.
May you all become enlightened.
User avatar
tiltbillings
Posts: 23046
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am

Re: Copyright on the Dhamma

Post by tiltbillings »

Maarten2 wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:Are you going to help Wisdom Publications with the cost of this?
I assume you mean the losses they would incur by selling less books (because the direct cost (legal or hosting for the files) would be neglectable)? I don't necessarily think there have to be any. People who buy paper back editions now, will still buy them even if they available online and if more people learn about the Dhamma more people will buy books about Buddhism in general. However, like it said earlier another idea might be to setup a fund to compensate them, I would definitely be willing to donate for such a cause.
So, who is going to pay for all of this?
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
Post Reply