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should a practicing buddhist own a gun? - Page 4 - Dhamma Wheel

should a practicing buddhist own a gun?

Buddhist ethical conduct including the Five Precepts (Pañcasikkhāpada), and Eightfold Ethical Conduct (Aṭṭhasīla).
Truth_Seeker1989
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Re: should a practicing buddhist own a gun?

Postby Truth_Seeker1989 » Thu Jun 07, 2012 7:05 pm

It would be rediculous to say it's immoral to own a gun, for a Monk, perhaps, for a Lay Practitioner, of course not! Not everyone is a Buddhist, not everyone practices love and happiness, in fact, it's quite the opposite when it comes to other religions/peoples. Think of your family, of your friends, and of your nation. There will be a time when you are given 'no other option' but to use violence to protect yourself, and your family.

To any who objects, I challenge you to meditate on it, on the scenario where your life, your families, and your friends lives are at risk, where the attacker is giving 'no option' other then to be a 'coward' or defend your own folk. It's so easy for people to sit there and say, 'Oh! Oh! It's so wrong! I would NEVER!", but then come the time where they are forced, really forced the choice, they would do the same, otherwise, IMO, that is a coward, someone who would let the lives of their loved ones be at risk because they are too afraid or even ignorant, to stand up and fight for the continuation of those who want nothing more then peace and harmony. Am I saying to not feel bad for the death or hurt to the attacker? No. I am saying use your logic and common sense.

The Smith family had just recently moved into their new home in the suburbs of New York City. Mrs Smith, a lovely woman and homemaker is tending to the house and three children tonight while her husband is off at work as a regular accountant for the Bank Of America. She is doing the dishes when she sees three men peeking into the window, and screams immediately. The attackers waste no time and quickly find the back door made mostly of glass, kick it in and rush after the Wife as she had just ran upstairs to get her children. She remembers the gun in her husbands office, only a room a away, and quickly takes it out of the case before returning to her children in the room of little Morigan, her youngest, at only ten years old. The sound of the mens footsteps as they come up the stairs can be easily heard, "You see that pretty little thing?! Ohhh, I can't wait to have fun with her!" "I saw her too! You cut the phone lines, right?" "You bet! There will be no help for this one..."

The three men, friends who had recently gotten out of prison, where they had met, months apart from eachother. Weeks ago they were drinking at the bar and came up with an excellent plan for some quick cash, robbing the homes of innocent folks. Two were convicted of grand theft, while the other, of multiple rape.

This is a very real scenario. Try going online, and looking at newspaper clippings/stories, of these very real scenarios, and tell me it's wrong to own a gun and defend yourself. The Buddha was a man of logic, of understanding. And he would understand a situation like this, would he be sad that it had to happen in the first place? Of course, but he would understand.
Everything that makes you, you, is the result of your Environment (Society, Culture, Family, Friends, Etc), Genetics/Biology (Your brain which makes the mind possible, Inborn diseases such as Down Syndrome, or even Psociopathy, etc), Thoughts (Everything you think affects your mind, and the person you are), Speech (Same as thoughts, but words affect your environment as well), Actions (Same as Speech), and the Elements (Earth, Water, Fire, Wind, Space, and Time).

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Re: should a practicing buddhist own a gun?

Postby Cittasanto » Thu Jun 07, 2012 7:34 pm



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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Re: should a practicing buddhist own a gun?

Postby Mr Man » Thu Jun 07, 2012 7:48 pm


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Re: should a practicing buddhist own a gun?

Postby daverupa » Thu Jun 07, 2012 7:59 pm


Truth_Seeker1989
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Re: should a practicing buddhist own a gun?

Postby Truth_Seeker1989 » Thu Jun 07, 2012 8:04 pm

Everything that makes you, you, is the result of your Environment (Society, Culture, Family, Friends, Etc), Genetics/Biology (Your brain which makes the mind possible, Inborn diseases such as Down Syndrome, or even Psociopathy, etc), Thoughts (Everything you think affects your mind, and the person you are), Speech (Same as thoughts, but words affect your environment as well), Actions (Same as Speech), and the Elements (Earth, Water, Fire, Wind, Space, and Time).

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Re: should a practicing buddhist own a gun?

Postby jason c » Thu Jun 07, 2012 8:17 pm


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Mr Man
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Re: should a practicing buddhist own a gun?

Postby Mr Man » Thu Jun 07, 2012 8:18 pm

Bodhisvasti where I live (London. UK) there is no reason to own a gun for self defence and no possibility to own a gun for self defence (legally). If there was the need or a possibility I would move.
---

Overcome the angry by non-anger; overcome the wicked by goodness; overcome the miser by generosity; overcome the liar by truth.
Dhp 223
Last edited by Mr Man on Thu Jun 07, 2012 8:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Ben
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Re: should a practicing buddhist own a gun?

Postby Ben » Thu Jun 07, 2012 8:21 pm

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

Truth_Seeker1989
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Re: should a practicing buddhist own a gun?

Postby Truth_Seeker1989 » Thu Jun 07, 2012 8:31 pm

Whoa. I am not talking about just any news, I am talking about facts. You can go to your local library, or on the internet for local news, and see the kind of people that are out there.The fact that there are individuals 'everywhere' who might commit heinous acts against your family, and always will be, allows a Buddhist the choice of owning a gun without blame, or being called 'immoral'. What fire exactly are you feeding with wood when the attacker has no idea who you are, but just wants to bring harm to you and your loved ones? And yes, that is your choice not to own a gun, but I certainly hope you are not going to try and talk to the psociopath or rapist who invades your home, the thief who will use any tool, murder included, to get his pockets full of cash, because that would end very badly, with your life, and the life of your family at risk. And it 'would' be your fault, should any of them suffer, because you decided talking, and lack of preparation, would be the best option, when really, it was no option at all. This also has nothing to do with revenge, that is something for the Law to take care of.

Where does fear come into play here? Not every attacker will even know who you are, in fact most won't, when it comes to situations where a gun is necessary.

In the case of a Home Invasion, there is no fire to feed, there is only hate and ignorance at your door, inside your home, that cannot be spoken to, because they themselves are more then likely already going to be prepared.

Should a Monk own a gun? No, IMO. Should a Lay Practitioner own some kind of protection from against the outside world? Definately! It's common sense, logic. It doesn't have to be a gun, but preparation, a weapon of some kind, is a necessity. And when the attacker has a gun, anything that does not project a missile or bullet, will not suffice. That is logic.
Everything that makes you, you, is the result of your Environment (Society, Culture, Family, Friends, Etc), Genetics/Biology (Your brain which makes the mind possible, Inborn diseases such as Down Syndrome, or even Psociopathy, etc), Thoughts (Everything you think affects your mind, and the person you are), Speech (Same as thoughts, but words affect your environment as well), Actions (Same as Speech), and the Elements (Earth, Water, Fire, Wind, Space, and Time).

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Re: should a practicing buddhist own a gun?

Postby Truth_Seeker1989 » Thu Jun 07, 2012 8:34 pm

Everything that makes you, you, is the result of your Environment (Society, Culture, Family, Friends, Etc), Genetics/Biology (Your brain which makes the mind possible, Inborn diseases such as Down Syndrome, or even Psociopathy, etc), Thoughts (Everything you think affects your mind, and the person you are), Speech (Same as thoughts, but words affect your environment as well), Actions (Same as Speech), and the Elements (Earth, Water, Fire, Wind, Space, and Time).

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Re: should a practicing buddhist own a gun?

Postby Cittasanto » Thu Jun 07, 2012 8:35 pm

Last edited by Cittasanto on Thu Jun 07, 2012 8:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.


He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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Re: should a practicing buddhist own a gun?

Postby jason c » Thu Jun 07, 2012 8:41 pm


Truth_Seeker1989
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Re: should a practicing buddhist own a gun?

Postby Truth_Seeker1989 » Thu Jun 07, 2012 8:45 pm

Wouldn't it though? It depends on what you did to prepare, now knowing the risks to your family from the outside world. And what you did, how you acted. Did you try to talk to the man as he tied you up and raped and/or murdered your wife? Did you try to talk to the man as he took your hard earned belongings? A weapon doesn't even have to be used alot of times, because even if they themselves have a gun, the moment they see that you do too, there is a good chance that they will leave anyways, as to not risk their life.

People in the ancient days, even Buddhists, had some form of 'preparation', wether it was traps, or a weapon, etc, etc, they had some sort of preparation, because then, as it is now, there are always people out there who might threaten harm to you and your own.
Everything that makes you, you, is the result of your Environment (Society, Culture, Family, Friends, Etc), Genetics/Biology (Your brain which makes the mind possible, Inborn diseases such as Down Syndrome, or even Psociopathy, etc), Thoughts (Everything you think affects your mind, and the person you are), Speech (Same as thoughts, but words affect your environment as well), Actions (Same as Speech), and the Elements (Earth, Water, Fire, Wind, Space, and Time).

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Re: should a practicing buddhist own a gun?

Postby Cittasanto » Thu Jun 07, 2012 8:48 pm



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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Re: should a practicing buddhist own a gun?

Postby Mr Man » Thu Jun 07, 2012 8:57 pm


Truth_Seeker1989
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Re: should a practicing buddhist own a gun?

Postby Truth_Seeker1989 » Thu Jun 07, 2012 8:58 pm

Cittasanto, do you honestly believe you are without risk from you and your family being harmed? Not everyone has the beautiful life you have. Most live in areas where this is a chance. Self defense is a logical conclusion. When there is no other choice, but to fight for your loved ones, you take it.

In the days when an entire village was about to be raided, the villagers, even if they were Buddhist, took up arms, so that their livelihood was not threatened/destroyed. If you were that one villager who hid beneath a cart, and watched his people suffer to the onslaught, to your people, you were a coward. You can't hide behind blind teachings that only taught generalities, not certain circumstances that happened, and still happen, in everyday life. Logic goes a long way.

When protests fail, and aren't even allowed, no option but to fight, you fight. When the attacker intends harm against you, leaves no option but to fight back, you fight. When you see your family being harmed, and 'knew' that should you have used violence to protect them, that they would be fine, and even the attackers themselves, yet you did nothing, your a coward.

The key phrase here is, "When you have no option but to fight..."
Everything that makes you, you, is the result of your Environment (Society, Culture, Family, Friends, Etc), Genetics/Biology (Your brain which makes the mind possible, Inborn diseases such as Down Syndrome, or even Psociopathy, etc), Thoughts (Everything you think affects your mind, and the person you are), Speech (Same as thoughts, but words affect your environment as well), Actions (Same as Speech), and the Elements (Earth, Water, Fire, Wind, Space, and Time).

Truth_Seeker1989
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Re: should a practicing buddhist own a gun?

Postby Truth_Seeker1989 » Thu Jun 07, 2012 9:01 pm

Everything that makes you, you, is the result of your Environment (Society, Culture, Family, Friends, Etc), Genetics/Biology (Your brain which makes the mind possible, Inborn diseases such as Down Syndrome, or even Psociopathy, etc), Thoughts (Everything you think affects your mind, and the person you are), Speech (Same as thoughts, but words affect your environment as well), Actions (Same as Speech), and the Elements (Earth, Water, Fire, Wind, Space, and Time).

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Re: should a practicing buddhist own a gun?

Postby SDC » Thu Jun 07, 2012 9:28 pm


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Re: should a practicing buddhist own a gun?

Postby bodom » Thu Jun 07, 2012 9:31 pm

To study is to know the texts,
To practice is to know your defilements,
To attain the goal is to know and let go.

- Ajahn Lee Dhammadharo


With mindfulness immersed in the body
well established, restrained
with regard to the six media of contact,
always centered, the monk
can know Unbinding for himself.

- Ud 3.5


https://www.dhammatalks.org/index.html
http://www.ajahnchah.org/

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cooran
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Re: should a practicing buddhist own a gun?

Postby cooran » Thu Jun 07, 2012 9:34 pm

Hello Bodom,

The main purpose of an umbrella is not to wound or kill.

with metta,
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---


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