should a practicing buddhist own a gun?

[SDC]

it would not be my fault, if someone else harmed a member of my family. and it would not be my fault if i could not prevent this from happening.

But would you do what you could to protect them? You wouldn't just sit back and let it happen? I doubt this is what you mean.

You wouldn't sacrifice yourself for another?

[Truth_Seeker1989]

Hello Bodom,

The main purpose of an umbrella is not to wound or kill.

with metta,
Chris

Because the only purpose of a gun is to wound or kill? That is wrong, illogical. The main purpose for a typical individual, outside of a military service, is for self defense. That man in that case, did not have a gun held to her head, or a sword.

A gun is meant for self defense, that is the main purpose for anyone to get one in the first place. If it were the case that firearms did not exist, we would still need a bow, a blade, a club, etc. Because it is highly likely that the attacker will have one too. You try rushing a man who attacking your family with a gun pointed at you. Lol.

[bodom]

Hello Bodom,

The main purpose of an umbrella is not to wound or kill.

with metta,
Chris

Hi Chris

Nor is the kitchen knife I am using currently too make dinner for myself and the kids. As always it is the intention behind picking these tools up and what use we put them too that is important. This is what I wished to communicate with the story.

[tiltbillings]

but as you bring up context, the context of what I said regarding laying down the stick and club, is the first precept, I have in my last post corrected the misquote, within that context the Buddhas advise is clear, ahimsa, while being a practical teaching for followers of the Buddha is a big teaching within the teachings.

EDIT - I will add that the question is regarding practicing buddhists and the default here is what the Buddha taught, be that canon, or commentarial, I do not believe any of which say a practicing Buddhist should have weapons.

Again, you do not address what Ben and I said.

Also, owning a bow or a gun or a knife or a pair of hands is not in and it itself a violation of ahimsa.

[Mr Man]

Sharon Salzberg tells a story about being attacked on a rickshaw in Bodh Gaya and the advice her teacher Anagarika Munindra gave her:

Just as well she didn't have a gun

[tiltbillings]

Sharon Salzberg tells a story about being attacked on a rickshaw in Bodh Gaya and the advice her teacher Anagarika Munindra gave her:

Just as well she didn't have a gun

She should not have whacked the attacker? Having a gun does not mean one is inevitably going to shoot someone, and it does not mean that one is inclined to shoot someone.

But all of this is just covering the same ground over and over. I wonder if anyone here has anything new to say here.

[Mr Man]

A kitchen knife is designed for use in the kitchen. What is a Colt 45 designed for? I wonder if inanimate objects have a destiny?

[Truth_Seeker1989]

Maybe summarise everything up?

Assuming we are speaking from a Buddhist perspective?

Anything and everything can and has been used as a tool of self defense. A gun, to the commoner, is a tool specifically made for self defense.

Intention is the cause of bad karma/immorality.

It is not immoral to own a gun, because it was purchased for self defense, in the hope of it never being used. The intent to kill is not there. And it is not being used for trading in weapons.

When given no other choice, at all, but to defend yourself with your gun, you shoot. Causing no bad Karma, being with no blame, and without immorality. Just rational.



I don't know. Everything there seems so logical to me. I tried to think from the viewpoint of the other guys, but it simply does not make sense. If your a Buddhist, you may own a gun so long is it is there simply as a tool for the self defense of you and your loved ones. If there is no intent to harm someone with it, then it is not immoral. When you are attacked, you never 'intended' to kill the man, you simply did what you could to defend yourself, and your family.

And to not do everything in your power to defend your family, including violence when no other option is available, makes you a coward, IMO.

[tiltbillings]

Hello Bodom,

The main purpose of an umbrella is not to wound or kill.

with metta,
Chris

Hi Chris

Nor is the kitchen knife I am using currently too make dinner for myself and the kids. As always it is the intention behind picking these tools up and what use we put them too that is important and what I wished to communicate with the story.

One use for a large kitchen knife: To be sure, this is a use I have never put to my large kitchen knife, a tool that I find very useful, but following the logic of some here, it is a tool that should not be owned by good Buddhists because of its potential for easy and proven lethality.

[David N. Snyder]

if i weild a gun at the first sign of trouble i most certainly will be attracting trouble.

That would be a complete misuse, improper use of a firearm, even in self-defense. All gun safety classes that I know of, teach that in self-defense a gun can only be used for the protection of your life or the life of another. It is not used to intimidate another or to settle a score or in response to an insult, etc. For example, if someone comes at you with fists and you are younger, stronger, bigger, you do not respond with a gun, even though the person is coming at you to assault you. If someone is pounding on your car with a club or bat or even a machete, you don't pull your gun (if you have one); you just drive away. The classes teach avoidance of these situations, not confrontation. And in spite of the high rate of gun ownership in the U.S., the misuse rarely occurs among those who legally obtained firearms, possibly due to the beneficial safety courses.

[daverupa]

What is a Colt 45 designed for?

Putting a powerful shot downrange. Whether there's a person there or a tin cup is up to the user, not the gun's design paradigm.

[tiltbillings]

A kitchen knife is designed for use in the kitchen. What is a Colt 45 designed for? I wonder if inanimate objects have a destiny?

So, every Colt .45 is going to be used for killing people, and every gun owner is a likely -- and according to some here, an inveitable -- killer.

[Truth_Seeker1989]

if i weild a gun at the first sign of trouble i most certainly will be attracting trouble.

That would be a complete misuse, improper use of a firearm, even in self-defense. All gun safety classes that I know of, teach that in self-defense a gun can only be used for the protection of your life or the life of another. It is not used to intimidate another or to settle a score or in response to an insult, etc. For example, if someone comes at you with fists and you are younger, stronger, bigger, you do not respond with a gun, even though the person is coming at you to assault you. If someone is pounding on your car with a club or bat or even a machete, you don't pull your gun (if you have one); you just drive away. The classes teach avoidance of these situations, not confrontation. And in spite of the high rate of gun ownership in the U.S., the misuse rarely occurs among those who legally obtained firearms, possibly due to the beneficial safety courses.

There you go! Perfect!

[Mr Man]

A kitchen knife is designed for use in the kitchen. What is a Colt 45 designed for? I wonder if inanimate objects have a destiny?

So, every Colt .45 is going to be used for killing people, and every gun owner is a likely -- and according to some here, an inveitable -- killer.

No not every colt is going to be used to kill but that is what it is designed to do. Killing is a gun's intention, That is why guns came to be.

Why do people like guns? I'm sure it is to do with power.

[daverupa]

Killing is a gun's intention

Inanimate objects do not express intent.

[Mr Man]

Inanimate objects do not express intent.

Yes I know that. It was just a way of talking (see previous post: "I wonder if inanimate objects have a destiny?"). How about purpose?

[Truth_Seeker1989]

Inanimate objects do not express intent.

Yes I know that. It was just a way of talking. How about purpose?

The purpose of a gun, to a 'commoner', is self defense.

[jason c]

it would not be my fault, if someone else harmed a member of my family. and it would not be my fault if i could not prevent this from happening.

But would you do what you could to protect them? You wouldn't just sit back and let it happen? I doubt this is what you mean.

You wouldn't sacrifice yourself for another?

in a life threatening situation you will simply act, there will be no time for thinking. if i see someone harming another it is my duty to intervene, but it must be done with a balanced mind(equanimity)knowing that the one doing the harming is a sick or ignorant person and they are doing just as much damage to themselves as the other. both individuals must be helped.

metta,
jason

[SDC]

it would not be my fault, if someone else harmed a member of my family. and it would not be my fault if i could not prevent this from happening.

But would you do what you could to protect them? You wouldn't just sit back and let it happen? I doubt this is what you mean.

You wouldn't sacrifice yourself for another?

in a life threatening situation you will simply act, there will be no time for thinking. if i see someone harming another it is my duty to intervene, but it must be done with a balanced mind(equanimity)knowing that the one doing the harming is a sick or ignorant person and they are doing just as much damage to themselves as the other. both individuals must be helped.

metta,
jason

I agree 100%.

[Mr Man]

Bodhisvasti I find your position to be totally lame - sorry.