Facebook induced suffering

Casual discussion amongst spiritual friends.

Facebook induced suffering

Postby rucontent » Tue Jun 05, 2012 2:44 am

I happen to be in a situation where i have left facebook a few times but ended up returning. However now i am at a turning point once again wherein i feel like not only do i not gain from using it but I feel like the act of looking and checking facebook..induces sankhara's ...... I have talked to others about this and have found that many agree....FB being a breeding ground for ego driven comments, nuerotic postings of cravings and aversions.....etc....

without trying to analyze my situation directly....while you can certainly offer commentary....I would love to hear from the group about their comments....

of course suffering here is meant on a buddhist level instead of a nuerotic torturous type of suffering,,,,...instead a more subtle corrosive level, time stealer

Please chime in with a more thorough analysis...

on the other side of this coin....I wonder if i am running from potential opportunity to increase mental strength.....or is it like a alcoholic going to a bar just to prove he doesnt have to drink......


:namaste:
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Re: Facebook induced suffering

Postby retrofuturist » Tue Jun 05, 2012 3:19 am

Greetings,

Please chime in with a more thorough analysis...


MN 2: Sabbasava Sutta
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

Metta,
Retro. :)
If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding:
Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)


Exalted in mind, just open and clearly aware, the recluse trained in the ways of the sages:
One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7


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Re: Facebook induced suffering

Postby Dan74 » Tue Jun 05, 2012 3:42 am

I am kind of clueless about Facebook and would be interested in examples and more detail about the situation described in the OP. Also what keeps bringing you back, what are the positives?
_/|\_
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Re: Facebook induced suffering

Postby Ben » Tue Jun 05, 2012 3:51 am

I have a very positive experience with facebook.
It allows me to keep in contact with the diaspora of family, friends and Dhamma-friends.
And there are plenty of worthwhile groups, such as this one:

Dhamma Wheel on Facebook
kind regards,

Ben
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Re: Facebook induced suffering

Postby marc108 » Tue Jun 05, 2012 5:07 am

rucontent wrote:on the other side of this coin....I wonder if i am running from potential opportunity to increase mental strength.....or is it like a alcoholic going to a bar just to prove he doesnt have to drink......


i think it depends on you. i had a similar situation with talk/tv news shows, which i would listen to and watch very frequently... there definitely were certain aspects that i enjoyed, but eventually i decided the effect on my mind was overall very negative and stopped. it was a great decision for me. obviously everything is ground for practice, but life is full of areas ripe with potential for practice and sometimes the most skillful thing is to just drop things that are easy to drop and focus on applying the practice to other, more useful areas of your life.

another option, which i've found helpful on facebook, is to block status updates from people who are chronically unwholesome. this is useful for family/etc who it would not be appropriate to 'unfriend'.
"It's easy for us to connect with what's wrong with us... and not so easy to feel into, or to allow us, to connect with what's right and what's good in us."
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Re: Facebook induced suffering

Postby Hanzze » Tue Jun 05, 2012 5:26 am

Modern networks and communications systems today make us very addicted to adherence. When we remember about 30 years ago, there was actually not a little need of all of that. This networks give us a kind of illusion, that we are able to act in a way we like it around the clock. One reality which comes with those technologies is, that we lose the capacity of remember. Another is that agreements are something we also reject. They make it kind of easy to follow one's moods and this gives us a kind of feeling of freedom.
Some say, today we can manage much more but I would say it's the opposite. Responsibility decays and promises have not much value. "You agreed something and now you feel hungry? No problem, give it a call."

From a perspective of letting go, letting go of worldly things, those systems are maybe the most difficult thing to overcome. If somebody for example left home and his family some years ago, then he actually left them. That means also to work on his desire for them. Today our thoughts are mostly hundred miles away and it makes our live here and where we are, very difficult.

Having no connection to the outside also means, that 90% of problem which are actually no problem do not enter our thought. We are not distracted from things which are not ours.
Actually this social networks in fact destruct real social networks, which go behind just mental relations ships. People more and more do no more meet each other, they meet avatars. Its like splitting the live into two parts.

Many might say that is one of the most beneficial achievement of today, I tend to say, that it is one of the biggest and destructive drug human ever developed. It makes us more and more dependent, not to speak about all the misuse and the not so well meant intentions of such networks. Its about stilling desire and creating desire and to turn on the business out of it.

But as long as we use it to understand our self better, like we use our mind to free us from it, it might have also its positive effects. How ever right intention is always important to reflect.
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
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Re: Facebook induced suffering

Postby mikenz66 » Tue Jun 05, 2012 5:50 am

Like Ben I don't notice anything particularly negative about Facebook. I guess it must depend on who your friends are. In my experience, ego-driven comments and neurotic postings are much more common on Forums such as DhammaWheel than on Facebook (where they are non-existent for me). This is probably because all I do on Facebook is share links and photographs with friends.

:anjali:
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Re: Facebook induced suffering

Postby Hanzze » Tue Jun 05, 2012 6:03 am

I guess that is because you could form "your" network like you like to have it, it's nothing but a castle where one can dwell like he feels good. Such a community like here for example, reflects live much better and therefore gives more possibilities to learn and watch your intentions.

Successful networks (in therms of worldly benefit) need to have the provide an illusory security, like a flat or house where you just meet things and persons you like. We are no more used to live with all that comes along, no more used to live a real community life which would make us understand ways and mind much better.

That is why I call internet the Deva and Asura world, it might be a good place to dwell but not easy a place for real growing in a spiritual manner, if our orientation is about just keeping it "harmoniously" and never come down on earth.

II. GUHAṬṬHAKA SUTTA
II. EIGHT-VERSED DISCOURSE ON THE CAVE

1. Holding fast in a cave, much obscured,
A man stays plunged in confused stupidity.
He, being of such a type, is far from detachment.
Objects of desire in this world are indeed not easy to abandon.

2. Founded in desire, bound to the pleasures of existence,
People are released with difficulty and indeed cannot get release
from another.
Hoping for what is after or before,
Longing for these desirable objects or former ones,

3. Greedy, engrossed, confounded over objects of desire,
Miserly, they are entrenched in the way of inequality.
And brought to an uneasy end they lament,
“What will become of us when we have passed away from here?”

4. Therefore a person should train himself right here and now;
Whatever he would know in the world to be a way of inequality
Not because of that should he go along the unequal way.
The wise say this life is but a little thing indeed.

5. I see in the world this race of men
Thrashing about with craving for existences.
Inferior men cry out in the jaws of Death
With craving not gone for this or that existence.

6. See them thrashing in the midst of what they call “mine”
Like fishes in a dried-up stream with little water.
And having seen that, one should go the way of “not mine,”
Not working up attachment for existences.

7. Having dismissed preference for either extreme,
Having thoroughly understood stimulation, not greedy for
anything,
Not doing that which would lead to self-reproach,
A wise man is not stuck to by the seen or the heard.

8. Having truly understood perception he would cross over the flood.
A sage is not mired with possessions.
With the spike pulled out, going with mind unclouded,
He does not wish for this world or another.
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
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Re: Facebook induced suffering

Postby daverupa » Tue Jun 05, 2012 11:52 am

I used Facebook once upon a time, but never had it meet a need other than boredom-habit. Also, it's not a medium conducive to meaningful discussion, only soundbites and games and running commentary on ones own life & the lives of others.

I failed to see the value, though it's easy to see the attraction.

:shrug:
    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.
- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
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Re: Facebook induced suffering

Postby alan » Tue Jun 05, 2012 2:59 pm

I love Facebook, use it to promote my photos and share a bit about my travels.
http://www.facebook.com/alan.hoelzle?ref=tn_tnmn
Friend me!
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Re: Facebook induced suffering

Postby Pacific » Wed Jun 06, 2012 12:56 am

I don't use it much but I have joined the Dhammawheel group. I'm reluctant to live my life on the internet, I like some privacy. I don't feel the tempation to check facebook constantly but I can see how easily it could happen to some. The internet in general can really get the sankharas going
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Re: Facebook induced suffering

Postby manas » Wed Jun 06, 2012 1:12 am

A few people, including my brother and sister who love facebook, have tried to rope me into it, and I have given it a go a few times. But I can never see what all the fuss is about. I find it kind of trite and uninspiring. Each to their own, but for me it's like a b-grade movie. And observing how obsessed my eldest daughter sometimes gets with it, does make me wonder about whether FB is good for today's youth, or harmful, ultimately. For example, there is so much bullying now on FB amongst teens, which can have devastating consequences.

I prefer to use the Internet for learning, and gathering information, rather than getting 'liked' by countless people I hardly even know - or don't really know at all. If I want to hang out with people, I prefer it face to face, rather than via my computer screen! Real people, real interactions.

But, 'each to their own', as the saying goes...

metta,

manas.
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Re: Facebook induced suffering

Postby Ben » Wed Jun 06, 2012 2:33 am

Hi manas

I think its a mistake to characterize all online relationships as inferior to real-world relationships. Very many people live isolated from family members, friends, teachers and sangha members and the internet, and even facebook, can and does facilitate ongoing contact. Thanks to facebook I was able to find friends who I had not seen for 25 to 30 years. There is great potential for facebook and online communications to be of great benefit. The fact that you have personally not experienced those benefits for yourself does not invalidate those benefits.
kind regards,

Ben
"One cannot step twice into the same river, nor can one grasp any mortal substance in a stable condition, but it scatters and again gathers; it forms and dissolves, and approaches and departs."

- Heraclitus


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Re: Facebook induced suffering

Postby Hanzze » Wed Jun 06, 2012 7:06 am

Dear Ben,

why not just visit them in person? Going for search of an old friend in the real world has maybe much more value and we would meet a 90% different person and a lot of our own history as well as intentions.
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
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Re: Facebook induced suffering

Postby manas » Wed Jun 06, 2012 8:03 am

Ben wrote:Hi manas

I think its a mistake to characterize all online relationships as inferior to real-world relationships. Very many people live isolated from family members, friends, teachers and sangha members and the internet, and even facebook, can and does facilitate ongoing contact. Thanks to facebook I was able to find friends who I had not seen for 25 to 30 years. There is great potential for facebook and online communications to be of great benefit. The fact that you have personally not experienced those benefits for yourself does not invalidate those benefits.
kind regards,

Ben


I know, and you make some valid points. There are some positives about online social networking. Although my experience of it wasn't very inspiring, I would assume that for physically isolated persons, or others who for reasons of injury or handicap find it hard to get around, it could be very valuable indeed. Maybe I just feel irritated that when my brother visits - and he lives quite a distance away, so I don't see him overly often - that he periodically checks his phone to see what's happened on his facebook account...I mean, can't it be left till later? Sheesh... :x maybe I'm just getting a bit grumpy in my mid-life...

with metta,

manas. :anjali:
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Re: Facebook induced suffering

Postby cooran » Wed Jun 06, 2012 8:20 am

Ben wrote:Hi manas

I think its a mistake to characterize all online relationships as inferior to real-world relationships. Very many people live isolated from family members, friends, teachers and sangha members and the internet, and even facebook, can and does facilitate ongoing contact. Thanks to facebook I was able to find friends who I had not seen for 25 to 30 years. There is great potential for facebook and online communications to be of great benefit. The fact that you have personally not experienced those benefits for yourself does not invalidate those benefits.
kind regards,

Ben

Hello Ben, all,

Yes, I agree. Friends and relatives post whatever is happening and we all keep in touch. My son is currently in the U.S. and he only has to make one entry, post one photo and dozens of relllies and friends are updated.

with metta
Chris
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---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
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Re: Facebook induced suffering

Postby poto » Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:58 pm

I still steadfastly refuse to use facebook. Mainly because I dislike how they treat their users and sell off people's personal information.

My family keeps trying to get me to use facebook, saying almost all the other family members are on there. On that note, I have 2 aunts who have been very close all their lives, and they are now not speaking to each other over some insults exchanged on facebook. I find that kind of sad, and can't help but to think that had it not been for facebook they might still be talking. I doubt that other mediums of communication would have given rise to the same insults and egos.

I already have at least half a dozen ways people can contact me. People I know can visit me in person, call me on the phone, text me, e-mail me, instant message me, etc. If it's not something important enough to contact me through any of those mediums then I probably don't need to waste me time with it.

:coffee:
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." -- C. S. Lewis
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Re: Facebook induced suffering

Postby Sekha » Fri Jun 08, 2012 2:24 am

Where knowledge ends, religion begins. - B. Disraeli

http://www.buddha-vacana.org

As a sweet-smelling and beautiful lotus flower may grow upon a heap of rubbish thrown on the highway, so also, out of the rubbish heap of beings may appear a disciple of the Buddha, who with his wisdom, shines resplendent in wisdom. -/ Dhp 58-59
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Re: Facebook induced suffering

Postby manas » Sun Jun 10, 2012 5:59 am

I just read about this in the paper, and thought I should share it here:

The problem with oversharing: why burglars like you using Facebook
Michael Lallo
June 10, 2012

IT SEEMS harmless enough: announcing your holiday plans on Facebook or uploading that dinner party photo to Twitter. But according to cyber safety experts, such posts are a gift to burglars and stalkers.

''Not only are you telling me where you are, you're telling me where you're not,'' says cyber safety consultant and former police officer Susan McLean. ''And I could get that photo, run it through a program and find out exactly where it was taken.''

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/technology/tec ... z1xMmZzddh


To those who do use facebook - please read the article, it is sobering stuff. There was another one about privacy and facebook, too:

Face up to social reality
James Manning
June 10, 2012

Not everyone is pleased with the photographic memory of some popular networking services.

Would you want technology and information powerhouses such as Facebook and Google trawling through your photos and using facial-recognition software to identify you? Well, like it or not, they already do.

You have to opt in to use Google's Find My Face feature, then the next time one of your friends uploads a photo that looks like you (they know it does because of your profile and other pictures), your name will be suggested as a tag.

Facebook, which has a history of introducing unpopular features and asking for permission later, has been automatically using facial recognition for more than a year without many users so much as blinking an eye.

The amount of personal data Facebook is gathering from its 901 million users, who upload 300 million photos a day, is phenomenal.

To curb it - or to take advantage of the opportunity - new applications are being launched to help users manage their online reputations and protect their privacy.

A game of tag

Designed and built in Australia, CeeQ notifies users when their photo is uploaded to Facebook by someone else. Users can then take action, such as tagging or untagging themselves, or requesting the removal of the photo.

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/digital-life/c ... 2027x.html


That part I bolded, is the real reason why I can't get into facebook. It's not the users I have a problem with, it's the designers and current operators of the site.

:anjali:
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Re: Facebook induced suffering

Postby Ben » Sun Jun 10, 2012 6:04 am

Designed and built in Australia, CeeQ notifies users when their photo is uploaded to Facebook by someone else. Users can then take action, such as tagging or untagging themselves, or requesting the removal of the photo.


If I am not mistaken, Facebook already has this feature. I get a notification when someone uploads a photo of me and I can untag it - if I so wish.
kind regards,

Ben
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- Heraclitus


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