Meditation Influence Diagram

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Meditation Influence Diagram

Postby Travis » Fri Jun 08, 2012 9:30 pm

Purpose: An illustration of the dissemination of ideas among prominent figures in the Theravada tradition, with special emphasis on the study of meditation.

Translation: I made a diagram because I am interested in the different different ways that meditation is taught and practiced, and this is one way to account for one aspect of how it got here (in the eyes of one a westerner/english speaker). I found it helpful and thougt it might be a useful reference for others. If anyone would like to make corrections, additions, or suggestions, please do so, just post the relevant info and link any source material and I will upload an improved version. This is a first draft and I will be improving it on my own now that a good chunk of work has been completed. The diagram is by no means meant to be all-inclusive and is out of necessity limited to those teachers who have written or been translated into english, and perhaps their teachers.

Any and all input is welcomed and appreciated.

With metta,
Travis

Edit: Added revised version.
Attachments
Meditation-Lineage-v2.pdf
Revised Version
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Meditation-Lineage.txt
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Last edited by Travis on Thu Jul 18, 2013 4:10 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Meditation/Lineage Diagram

Postby Ben » Fri Jun 08, 2012 9:50 pm

Thanks Travis that looks very interesting!
No suggestions or corrections so far but no doubt, others may chip in.
kind regards,

Ben
"Only those who take to meditation with good intentions can be assured of success. With the development of the purity and the power of the mind backed by the insight into the ultimate truth of nature, one might be able to do a lot of things in the right direction for the benefit of mankind."

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Re: Meditation/Lineage Diagram

Postby Sam Vara » Fri Jun 08, 2012 10:15 pm

Hi Travis,

Looks like a real labour of love!

I think Ajahn Sucitto should be in the bottom left hand box (heirs to Ajahn Chah) - mainly in light of his recent "how-to" manual "Meditation: A Way of Awakening".
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Re: Meditation/Lineage Diagram

Postby marc108 » Fri Jun 08, 2012 10:40 pm

that is SO COOL! :jumping:

I dont believe Bhante Sujato ever met Ajahn Chah but I could be wrong, I believe he was a student of Ajahn Brahm.
Ajahn Sucitto could go under Ajahn Chah.
Richard Shankman could go under Joseph Goldstein.
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Re: Meditation/Lineage Diagram

Postby manas » Fri Jun 08, 2012 10:53 pm

This is great work, Travis.

One suggestion would be to sacrifice some of the compactness for the sake of a clearer delineation of time. For example, I understand the need for Ajahn Chah to be 'under' J Kornfield due to issues of fitting everything together, and I noted the upward pointing arrow. But if it were possible to have a teacher always 'above' the student, that would make things clearer still, but would probably require a much wider page and so might be impracticable. If that's the case than I would humbly request slightly 'bolder' arrows for the benefit of more 'visually-challenged' folks such as myself :geek:

I really like this alot, though. sādhu!

manas :anjali:
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Re: Meditation/Lineage Diagram

Postby Travis » Sat Jun 09, 2012 3:16 am

Thanks for all the positive feedback!
manas, I agree, reformatting would help to make things more clear. I would also like to have the teachers above the students whenever possible, so that definitely could happen if I do a version 2.0. I would also like to make room for a finer break down of the grouped boxes, like with Ajahn Chah's "line."

It looks like Ajahn Sucitto was a student of Ajahn Sumedho and Ajahn Sujato was first a student of Ajahn Maha Chatchai and then Ajahn Brahm. I haven't seen much about Shankman's background, but he should be in there, thanks for suggesting him, marc108.

Sam Vega, yes it has been a total labor of love. I 've been having a blast searching and reading, and also blessed with lots of interesting little tangents and side roads to explore along the way.
:anjali:
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Re: Meditation/Lineage Diagram

Postby Goofaholix » Sat Jun 09, 2012 3:47 am

The way it's laid out makes it look like the Thai Forest tradition is subordinated to the various Burmese traditions, you probably want to have it arranged top down in terms of date with various streams converging later on like a family tree.
"Whenever we feel that we are definitely right, so much so that we refuse to open up to anything or anybody else, right there we are wrong. It becomes wrong view. When suffering arises, where does it arise from? The cause is wrong view, the fruit of that being suffering. If it was right view it wouldn't cause suffering." - Ajahn Chah
"Remember you dont meditate to get anything, but to get rid of things. We do it, not with desire, but with letting go. If you want anything, you wont find it." - Ajahn Chah
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Re: Meditation/Lineage Diagram

Postby Modus.Ponens » Sat Jun 09, 2012 3:50 am

Great work! Thanks. :)
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Re: Meditation/Lineage Diagram

Postby Reductor » Sat Jun 09, 2012 4:18 am

Impressive work, and very interesting. The suggestions above are also very helpful.
Michael

The thoughts I've expressed in the above post are carefully considered and offered in good faith.

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To his own ruin the fool gains knowledge, for it cleaves his head and destroys his innate goodness. -- Dhp 72

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Re: Meditation/Lineage Diagram

Postby David N. Snyder » Sat Jun 09, 2012 4:22 am

And if you really want to get ambitious with the project, you could make a transmission line that goes back to the Buddha. I think there are some Zen schools that do that; of course with some large gaps over some centuries, to keep the tree a reasonable size. For example, it could go:

Buddha --> Ananda -> Moggaliputta Tissa -> Mahinda, Sanghamitta --> Maharakkhita -> Buddhaghosa -> etc.
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Re: Meditation/Lineage Diagram

Postby Viscid » Sat Jun 09, 2012 4:27 am

Dude, this is awesome! Great work.

Expanding this would be great (perhaps a collaborative effort?) I'd particularily like to see the Thai Forest tradition's history past Ajahn Sao.

The Nyanavira/Nanamoli area is confusing!
"What holds attention determines action." - William James
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Re: Meditation/Lineage Diagram

Postby danieLion » Sat Jun 09, 2012 6:21 am

Very cool, indeed.

I know you're still drafting, but have you thought of any way to (1) delineate chronology, and (2) more straightforwardly specify independent/broken versus overlapping/linking lines?

metta
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Re: Meditation/Lineage Diagram

Postby Mr Man » Sat Jun 09, 2012 7:52 am

Hi Travis
Are Ajahn Bramavamso (Ajahn Brahmavamso) and Ajahn Brahm not the same person?
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Re: Meditation/Lineage Diagram

Postby Cittasanto » Sat Jun 09, 2012 7:55 am

The problem with the Ajahn Chah area is that not all who were ordained by him were actually his direct students.
Take Ajahn Amaro for example, he spent about two weeks with Ajahn Chah, he spent most of his time while in Thailand at WPN, and then was with Ajahn Sumedho, so could more accurately be described as Ajahn Sumedho's Disciple, and if you have listend to his talks he quotes him allot more than anyone else.
or Ajahn Sumedho, who hadn't been ordained by Ajahn Chah, (same for Ajahn Brahm) but these are his disciples. also Ajahn Brahm is Ajahn Bramavamso and in the list twice. it may be easier to put people in order of rains in that list?

Mae Chee Kaew isnt there, I think she was a disciple of Ajahn Mun.
also you miss Ajahn Vajiro.

is there not a family tree software you could use?
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
With Metta
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Re: Meditation/Lineage Diagram

Postby tiltbillings » Sat Jun 09, 2012 8:22 am

You need to add Dipa Ma directly below Munidra-ji and Kornfeild probably would not be considered a student of Munidra-ji. Kornfield. See: http://www.jackkornfield.com/about-bio/
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
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Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.
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Re: Meditation/Lineage Diagram

Postby tiltbillings » Sat Jun 09, 2012 8:35 am

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.
"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: Meditation/Lineage Diagram

Postby plwk » Sat Jun 09, 2012 8:50 am

Boy, I am just imagining what this 'guru parampara' would look like in jiva color and full blown pictures... :mrgreen:
Bhikkhus, if you develop and make much this one thing,
it invariably leads to weariness, cessation, appeasement, realization and extinction.
What is it? It is recollecting the Enlightened One.
If this single thing is recollected and made much,
it invariably leads to weariness, cessation, appeasement, realization and extinction.

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Re: Meditation/Lineage Diagram

Postby tiltbillings » Sat Jun 09, 2012 9:07 am

plwk wrote:Boy, I am just imagining what this 'guru parampara' would look like in jiva color and full blown pictures... :mrgreen:
That is what Google is for: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe ... parampara'

But do stay on topic, please.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.
"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: Meditation/Lineage Diagram

Postby Ben » Sat Jun 09, 2012 9:34 am

Hi Travis,
A bit more feedback, I hope you find it useful...

The relationship between Webu Sayadaw and U Ba Khin wasn't that one of teacher/student but probably more like a mentor.
U Ba Khin cited U Po Thet (Saya Thet Gyi) as his teacher. Webu Sayadaw encouraged (and authorized) U Ba Khin to teach meditation and then visited U Ba Khin and gave talks at IMC in Yangon from the 1950s.
Daw Mya Thwin (Mother Sayamagyi), John Coleman, Robert Hoover and Ruth Dennison were peers, all contemporary students of U Ba Khin. Daw Mya Thwin became the successor of U Ba Khin at IMC. But at that time, at least SN Goenka and John Coleman (perhaps Robert Hoover and Ruth Dennnison) were already authorized by U Ba Khin as assistant teachers. SN Goenka had also been living in India for two years before U Ba Khin's demise in 1971. I don't think any of them, and not just SN Goenka, would consider Daw Mya Thwin as their teacher. I have also heard that John Coleman may have taught at SN Goenka's centre in the early days.

Also...
Sagaing Hills.
There are over 500 pagodas, the Sitagu University, many monasteries and, of course, the caves at neighbouring Prekhamma Hills.

Mahasi Sayadaw:
The lineage should be Ledi Sayadaw -> Monyin Sayadaw -> Mahasi Sayadaw (Burma's Mass Meditation Movement by Ingrid Jordt)
kind regards,

Ben
"Only those who take to meditation with good intentions can be assured of success. With the development of the purity and the power of the mind backed by the insight into the ultimate truth of nature, one might be able to do a lot of things in the right direction for the benefit of mankind."

Sayagyi U Ba Khin


Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global Relief
UNHCR Syria Emergency Relief AppealTyphoon Haiyan Relief AppealKiva: (person to person micro-finance)

e: ben.dhammawheel@gmail.com
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Re: Meditation/Lineage Diagram

Postby David2 » Sat Jun 09, 2012 10:41 am

Very nice work indeed. Thanks for sharing. :thumbsup:
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