Sutta supporting khanikavada (momentariness)

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Re: Sutta supporting khanikavada (momentariness)

Postby mikenz66 » Sat Jun 09, 2012 9:13 pm

Alex123 wrote:To say that mind by day and by night arises as one thing and ceases as another. is far far from talking about momentariness, as some take it to mean, that trillions of cittas rise and fall every second.

Yes, but remember this thread is about sutta support.
Alex123 wrote:I do believe in a sort of momentariness. When we read every letter, then every split second there is different object of the mind - and thus the mind.

Yes, that's obvious by mundane observation. We don't need a sutta to tell us that...

Another aspect of momentariness (in Theravada at least) is that there is only consciousness of one object at at a time. Are there suttas that make that statement clearly.

:anjali:
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Re: Sutta supporting khanikavada (momentariness)

Postby vinasp » Sat Jun 09, 2012 11:35 pm

Hi everyone,

There seems to be different ways of counting and numbering these suttas at
the start of AN.

ATI has it as: AN 1.48, PTS: A i 10 - Lahu-parivatta Sutta - Quick to Reverse
Itself.

Link: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

"I don't envision a single thing that is as quick to reverse itself as the mind — so much so that there is no feasible simile for how quick to reverse itself it is."

Regards, Vincent.
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Re: Sutta supporting khanikavada (momentariness)

Postby mikenz66 » Sun Jun 10, 2012 1:27 am

Thanks Vincent!

:anjali:
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Re: Sutta supporting khanikavada (momentariness)

Postby SamKR » Sun Jun 10, 2012 11:15 pm

Thanks danieLion, Mike, ancientbuddhism, Alex, and vinasp.

robertk wrote:
SamKR wrote:Thanks everyone for your replies and for the links.
Cooran's link to past discussion and the book (thesis) is very useful.

Thanks robertk for Guhatthaka-suttaniddeso which, as pointed out by tiltbillings in the past thread, is a commentary. But I think it is authoritative as it is a part of Nikaya. I hope there might be similar others that talk about impermanence close to momentariness, suttas preferably.

The idea that it is part of the Commentaries and not an actual sutta seems to have come from the translators innocent use of the word 'commentary' when describing Sariputta's exposition. If , in his preface, the modern translator had instead used the word "exposition' it would have been clearer.
So just to stress again, IT IS A SUTTA and not part of the Atthakatha (commentaries).

Thanks, robertk. Nice to know that.
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Re: Sutta supporting khanikavada (momentariness)

Postby danieLion » Sun Jun 10, 2012 11:30 pm

mikenz66 wrote:Hi Daniel,

I don't think that the issue of "being in the present moment" is the same as the issue of "momentariness".

:anjali:
Mike

I don't either. Did you even look at the topic?
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Re: Sutta supporting khanikavada (momentariness)

Postby SamKR » Mon Jun 11, 2012 12:01 am

Can I add the following from Upacala Sutta:

Sabbo ādīpito loko, sabbo loko padīpito;
Sabbo pajjalito loko, sabbo loko pakampito.


Which is often quoted by SN Goenka to talk about rapid impermanence of sensations.
He translates the second line as "The entire world is burning, the entire world is vibrating"

Bhikkhu Bodhi's translation is: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .bodh.html

Though this Sutta is not exactly about momentariness but it seems to be related because of the word pakampito.
Last edited by SamKR on Mon Jun 11, 2012 12:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sutta supporting khanikavada (momentariness)

Postby Ben » Mon Jun 11, 2012 12:05 am

SamKR wrote:Can I add the following from Upacala Sutta:

Sabbo ādīpito loko, sabbo loko padīpito;
Sabbo pajjalito loko, sabbo loko pakampito.


Which is quoted by SN Goenka frequently to talk about rapid impermanence of sensations.
He translates the second line as "The entire world is burning, the entire world is vibrating"

Bhikkhu Bodhi's translation is: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .bodh.html

Though this Sutta is not exactly about momentariness but it seems to be related because of the word pakampito.


Hi Sam,
I have seen that too, but it was, or something very similar, in the Therigatha.
kind regards,

Ben
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.

Taṃ nadīhi vijānātha:
sobbhesu padaresu ca,
saṇantā yanti kusobbhā,
tuṇhīyanti mahodadhī.

Sutta Nipata 3.725


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Re: Sutta supporting khanikavada (momentariness)

Postby SamKR » Mon Jun 11, 2012 12:22 am

Hello Ben,
Yes, the same stanza seems to appear in two places.
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Re: Sutta supporting khanikavada (momentariness)

Postby SamKR » Sat May 11, 2013 7:39 am

Other related words of the Buddha:

"Insofar as it disintegrates, monk, it is called the 'world.' Now what disintegrates? The eye disintegrates. Forms disintegrate. Consciousness at the eye disintegrates. Contact at the eye disintegrates. And whatever there is that arises in dependence on contact at the eye — experienced as pleasure, pain or neither-pleasure-nor-pain — that too disintegrates.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

This world is burning.
Afflicted by contact,
it calls disease a 'self.'
By whatever means it construes [anything],
it becomes otherwise than that
[1].

1. In other words, regardless of whatever one bases one's construal of an experience on, by the time the construal is complete, the base has already changed.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
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