Greetings,
I've probably read the answer to this question somewhere, but I wouldn't know quite where to look for the answer, so I thought it might be easier to ask here, and hopefully someone can answer me at the drop of a hat.
Obviously the physical body constitutes rupa, but what about physical pain arising from rupa? How is that classified in the Abhidhamma? Is it rupa too, or is it nama?
Metta,
Retro.
Physical pain - nama or rupa?
- retrofuturist
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Physical pain - nama or rupa?
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
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Re: Physical pain - nama or rupa?
good question.
สัพเพ สัตตา สุขีตา โหนตุ
the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat
the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat
Re: Physical pain - nama or rupa?
Hello Retro, all,
These threads from dhammastudygroup may be helpful:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dhammastudygroup/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
You will need to join, if you are not already a member. Then click on Files in the menu on the left hand side. Then click on "Useful_Posts_March_2009.htm"
Choose 'P' and scroll down to:
Pain, Painful feelings
3862, 3879, 14230, 28108, 45268, 45592, 47937, 52240, 61395, 69147, 70462, 80310, 87449
metta
Chris
These threads from dhammastudygroup may be helpful:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dhammastudygroup/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
You will need to join, if you are not already a member. Then click on Files in the menu on the left hand side. Then click on "Useful_Posts_March_2009.htm"
Choose 'P' and scroll down to:
Pain, Painful feelings
3862, 3879, 14230, 28108, 45268, 45592, 47937, 52240, 61395, 69147, 70462, 80310, 87449
metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---
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Re: Physical pain - nama or rupa?
Painful bodily feeling is the vedanā that accompanies the fifth of the seven types of unwholesome-resultant consciousness (akusala-vipāka citta), namely, unwholesome-resultant bodily consciousness accompanied by pain (dukkhasahagataṃ kāyaviññāṇaṃ). The basis (vatthu) of this citta is rūpa, but the citta itself and the vedanā are nāma.
Best wishes,
Dhammanando Bhikkhu
Best wishes,
Dhammanando Bhikkhu
Rūpehi bhikkhave arūpā santatarā.
Arūpehi nirodho santataro ti.
“Bhikkhus, the formless is more peaceful than the form realms.
Cessation is more peaceful than the formless realms.”
(Santatarasutta, Iti 73)
Arūpehi nirodho santataro ti.
“Bhikkhus, the formless is more peaceful than the form realms.
Cessation is more peaceful than the formless realms.”
(Santatarasutta, Iti 73)
- retrofuturist
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Re: Physical pain - nama or rupa?
Greetings bhante,
Thank you.
Metta,
Retro.
Thank you.
Metta,
Retro.
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
Re: Physical pain - nama or rupa?
Dear BhanteDhammanando wrote:Painful bodily feeling is the vedanā that accompanies the fifth of the seven types of unwholesome-resultant consciousness (akusala-vipāka citta), namely, unwholesome-resultant bodily consciousness accompanied by pain (dukkhasahagataṃ kāyaviññāṇaṃ). The basis (vatthu) of this citta is rūpa, but the citta itself and the vedanā are nāma.
Best wishes,
Dhammanando Bhikkhu
I apologise in advance if I am trawling up old material, but hope you can assist with a point related to your previous assertion of "kammic minimalism" and the akusala-vipaka citta above.
Is this akusala-vipaka citta ALWAYS the result of kamma, whether past life or present life kamma? If so, is it still tenable to assert kammic minimalism as per Sivaka Sutta, SN 36.21 on the basis that kamma may or may not have been the operative factor in determining the rupa-vatthu part of the phassa triad?
If so, would it be correct to conclude that what comes into contact with our external sense media may or may not be kamma vipaka, but that all corresponding vinnana of such phassa is kammically determined?
With metta
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Re: Physical pain - nama or rupa?
Physical pain is "dukkha". Mental pain is "domanassa".
Ven. Dhammanando, if the citta associated with physical pain is nama, how is dukkha distinguished from domanassa?
Ven. Dhammanando, if the citta associated with physical pain is nama, how is dukkha distinguished from domanassa?
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Re: Physical pain - nama or rupa?
I think the body only has touch sensation. If it is a soft touch (rupa) then a pleasant mental feeling arises (nama), which is called pleasurable body feeling, as it is based on the body, but is'nt the body. If a hard touch then an unpleasant mental feeling arises, which is called unpleasant body feeling, as it is based on the body, but is'nt the body. Where the switch from pleasant to unpleasant is I guess would be due to past Kamma, but not sure. I'm absolutely 100% sure that this is correct - unless of course I'm wrong!
Terry
Terry
Re: Physical pain - nama or rupa?
Dear all
This is a friendly reminder that posts in the Classical Mahavihara Theravada fora require textual evidence to support a contention.
Thanks for your cooperation.
Metta
Ben
This is a friendly reminder that posts in the Classical Mahavihara Theravada fora require textual evidence to support a contention.
I would appreciate it if you could respect these guidelines in this forum.The Abhidhamma and Classical Theravada sub-forums are specialized venues for the discussion of the Abhidhamma and the classical Mahavihara understanding of the Dhamma. Within these forums the Pali Tipitaka and its commentaries are for discussion purposes treated as authoritative. These forums are for the benefit of those members who wish to develop a deeper understanding of these texts and are not for the challenging of the Abhidhamma and/or Theravada commentarial literature.
Posts should also include support from a reference, a citation (Tipitaka, commentarial, or from a later work from an author representative of the Classical point-of-view).
Posts that contain personal opinions and conjecture, points of view arrived at from meditative experiences, conversations with devas, blind faith in the supreme veracity of one's own teacher's point of view etc. are all regarded as off-topic, and as such, will be subject to moderator review and/or removal.
http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=374" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Thanks for your cooperation.
Metta
Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725
Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global Relief • UNHCR
e: [email protected]..
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725
Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global Relief • UNHCR
e: [email protected]..
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Re: Physical pain - nama or rupa?
Thanks Ben, I'm just wondering were the Buddha gained his knowlege from if not from meditation experience!