Peter wrote:Are you suggesting these "others" you refer to are sotapanna? Remember, the Buddha teaches it is only with the attainment of sotapanna that one no longer takes the five aggregates as self.
The fetter that has to be broken for stream-entry is the speculative view of self (either annihilationist or eternalist). I agree there's more to it than just having a think about it and saying, "OK, that makes sense"... but it certainly doesn't require the tendency to never think in terms of a self. Such habitual tendencies are only totally eradicated at arahantship when mana
Peter wrote: I would argue that just because one intellectually assents to the teaching of anatta does not mean they do not actually hold a view of self, even if they themselves may not be aware of it. I would bet that most rebirth-deniers you and I encounter do in fact hold a view of self.
Views of self may be explicit or implicit. I agree that eradication of explicit views on self, does not also count as eradication of implicit views.
Nonetheless, I can assure you my example was not a straw man, even if it's not one that you personally align yourself to.
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh
"Whether I were to preach in brief, Sāriputta, or whether I were to preach in detail, Sāriputta, or whether I were to preach both in brief or in detail, Sāriputta, rare are those who understand." (A I 333, Sāriputtasutta)