tiltbillings wrote:
That becomes an interesting lesson. No doubt sotapanna is a big deal, but then what? Do you come onto a forum like this a blab it about, where it become naught more than credential - ah, a posting by whatizname the sotapanna. If a sotapanna can still have conceit, should that conceit be fed? Or might we want to look at it all a bit differently.
Hi Tilt,
I am not specifically addressing what you say on a personal level since this view that "a sotapanna is such a big deal" is shared by and large by the community here. However, I don't believe being a sotapanna is a big deal!
I have stated my arguments before in my previous post and to summarize:
1) You cannot tell someone who is ripe to become a stream enterer apart from another common person.
2) You can hardly tell a stream entrant apart from another common person.
3) That out of the 3 qualifications, one needs to work on only 1 i.e. eradication of the concept of self and with just minimal moderate effort in guided concentration, gain supramundane knowledge to breakdown the concept of self, couple with enough mundane knowledge, you have awaken the dhamma eye.
Here is another thing I would like to add
In the homage to the Sangha, it states, 8 individuals to be respected. To recap:
The person on the path of stream entry and the stream enterer
The person on the path of once returner and the once returner.
The person on the path of non-returner and the non-returner.
The person on the path of arahantship and the arahant.
Remember, this was recorded down from the Buddha's time. If a stream enterer is such a big deal, then he surely is already on the path of once returner, automatically. So why 8 individuals? Why not just 5 and collapse it down to once returner, non-returner and arahant after stream enterer? He eventually, base on this common notion that he has reached such a lofty level, he should be able to stream right up or seen the light enough to just drop everything and work towards arahantship? Why choose to continue to remain a stream enterer?
It is my believe a stream enterer has choices like any normal person. When he reach that points, he has the choice of
1) continuing his domestic life like everyone else including continuing indulging in sense desire, as he has not EVEN BEGIN to weaken it. He naturally keeps the precept but not perfectly.
2) Paring down responsibility in his domestic life to continue his effort to becoming a once returner i.e. he lives simply and works merely for sustenance
3) Drop out of domestic life and pursue the ulitmate goal
The problem I see here is, there is a perpatual self-doubt running around the community that becoming a sotapanna is such a lofty goal, so impossible by you and I, that we might want to consider whether we are putting up a self-impose barrier and whether we are allowing others to put a barrier on us, on the pre-condition of "eradication of doubt" to become a stream entrant. Are we to believe that after years and years of service, chanting, reading the sutta, meditating, that we, the lay buddhist is confined to, at best, as a person on the path of stream entry until death and decay?! If that is the case, then there is generally something wrong with our community and the Sangha (my I be forgiven if I have offended the Sangha). Shouldn't the minimal goal, of any Sangha and Buddhist community, be to churn out stream entrters like a factory. If not, then why not! Why is it so difficult? Where has this technique dissapeared to since the Buddha's time?