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How common is stream entry? - Page 13 - Dhamma Wheel

How common is stream entry?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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tiltbillings
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Re: ...---... How common is stream entry?

Postby tiltbillings » Tue Jun 19, 2012 4:52 am


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retrofuturist
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Re: How common is stream entry?

Postby retrofuturist » Tue Jun 19, 2012 4:57 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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robertk
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Re: How common is stream entry?

Postby robertk » Tue Jun 19, 2012 5:01 am


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Re: How common is stream entry?

Postby retrofuturist » Tue Jun 19, 2012 5:04 am

Greetings Robert,

Yet there are similar passages on the remote likelihood of simply encountering the Dhamma in this lifetime.

From that you could draw a 1:1 relationship between encountering the Dhamma and attaining stream entry. 8-)

:rofl:

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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kirk5a
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Re: How common is stream entry?

Postby kirk5a » Tue Jun 19, 2012 5:18 am

"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230

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tiltbillings
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Re: How common is stream entry?

Postby tiltbillings » Tue Jun 19, 2012 6:17 am


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Re: ...---... How common is stream entry?

Postby Cittasanto » Tue Jun 19, 2012 6:19 am



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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Re: How common is stream entry?

Postby retrofuturist » Tue Jun 19, 2012 6:20 am

Greetings Tilt,

I was specifically thinking of this one (which used to be two)...

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/stud ... tream.html

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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daverupa
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Re: How common is stream entry?

Postby daverupa » Tue Jun 19, 2012 5:53 pm

I haven't been able to find it yet, but I hope some others here will recall this...

There is a Sutta wherein the Buddha notes that while some declare their attainment by saying something such as "I have attained it", others would come to the Buddha, say a phrase of Dhamma, and depart - and that was their declaration. The Buddha, as I recall, seemed to prefer this latter approach, somewhat chiding the more overt declarers.

It's in the Majjhima Nikaya somewhere I think, but it might be a hidden prose piece somewhere in the Samyutta... anyway, I'm fairly certain it isn't online, but the overall tenor of the Sutta pretty much puts the kibosh on those who would go around saying "I am attainment X, I am attainment Y".

(The one I am trying to recall is not the Sunakkhatta Sutta, nor is it the Chabbisodhana Sutta, though both of those pertain to this topic.)

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Re: How common is stream entry?

Postby Sokehi » Tue Jun 19, 2012 8:33 pm

declaring it openly shows a definite lack of restraint, as does my post here ;)
Get the wanting out of waiting

What does womanhood matter at all, when the mind is concentrated well, when knowledge flows on steadily as one sees correctly into Dhamma. One to whom it might occur, ‘I am a woman’ or ‘I am a man’ or ‘I’m anything at all’ is fit for Mara to address. – SN 5.2

If they take what's yours, tell yourself that you're making it a gift.
Otherwise there will be no end to the animosity. - Ajahn Fuang Jotiko


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marc108
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Re: ...---... How common is stream entry?

Postby marc108 » Tue Jun 19, 2012 11:26 pm

"It's easy for us to connect with what's wrong with us... and not so easy to feel into, or to allow us, to connect with what's right and what's good in us."

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Re: How common is stream entry?

Postby divine » Thu Jun 21, 2012 1:03 am

One last thing guys, one reason to practise meditation is that when you experience the big nothingness you can keep your calm instead of shitting your pants!

And do some yoga!

Thank you all, this have been a good experience for me. A wake up call to why it's important to keep this thing for myself.

:toast:

edit: And one tip more, keep in mind your intention.
Last edited by divine on Thu Jun 21, 2012 1:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
One should believe it could be beneficial to post information about attainment in a thread like "How common is stream entry?", but I had no idea you are regularly vitnessing these claims and often there are something else behind it. You have been great giving only kind advice and healthy scepticism. Metta!

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tiltbillings
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Re: How common is stream entry?

Postby tiltbillings » Thu Jun 21, 2012 1:10 am


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Re: How common is stream entry?

Postby divine » Thu Jun 21, 2012 1:23 am

@ tiltbillings: For all I know about you on the other end of the keyboard, you are a fairly dedicated and fairly diligent guy with quite alot of experience and knowledge. You have been the number one sceptic about this claim of attainment. And that is good, sceptic's are essential in a community. But may I ask you to provide information about what kind of experiences that mimickes the stream entry? Please also say something about how this experience of no self relates to the experience of loss of doubt.

If this misunderstood experience is so common, I think it would be useful to share it on the forum, so other people can be free of their illusion. Use me as your punching bag if that makes it easier. I'll take one for the team!
One should believe it could be beneficial to post information about attainment in a thread like "How common is stream entry?", but I had no idea you are regularly vitnessing these claims and often there are something else behind it. You have been great giving only kind advice and healthy scepticism. Metta!

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tiltbillings
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Re: How common is stream entry?

Postby tiltbillings » Thu Jun 21, 2012 1:47 am


divine
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Re: How common is stream entry?

Postby divine » Thu Jun 21, 2012 1:56 am

Thanks for the effort, but have you ever heard the saying "arguing on the internet is like running in the special olympics - even if you win, you're still retarded". This is a thread about how common stream entry is, there's nothing to be proved.

Now I have to go practise my restraint again.
One should believe it could be beneficial to post information about attainment in a thread like "How common is stream entry?", but I had no idea you are regularly vitnessing these claims and often there are something else behind it. You have been great giving only kind advice and healthy scepticism. Metta!

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tiltbillings
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Re: How common is stream entry?

Postby tiltbillings » Thu Jun 21, 2012 2:13 am


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Re: How common is stream entry?

Postby Viscid » Thu Jun 21, 2012 2:57 am

This whole "Look everyone, I'm enlightened!" announcement comes up often, and so far it doesn't seem very helpful to be belittling and dismissive in response. These experiences are real and potentially life-changing to people. In order to understand that experience, one needs first to label them, and 'stream-entry,' being the first stage of enlightenment, serves that purpose. It's a definite marker, which separates one type of person from another type of person. Someone who has had a profound change in spiritual perspective is naturally going to use that particular marker to differentiate themselves from others. I think our responses should be understanding of this. Perhaps we should give them other terminology, say, 'Having insight into Anatta,' over 'Being a Sotapanna.'

Also:

Image
"What holds attention determines action." - William James

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tiltbillings
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Re: How common is stream entry?

Postby tiltbillings » Thu Jun 21, 2012 3:27 am


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Re: How common is stream entry?

Postby Reductor » Thu Jun 21, 2012 3:49 am



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