Morning Coffee Pali Musing

Explore the ancient language of the Tipitaka and Theravāda commentaries

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daverupa
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Morning Coffee Pali Musing

Postby daverupa » Thu Jun 28, 2012 11:10 am

As I drank a morning cup of coffee, a reflection arose in my mind thus: Suppose one were to translate dukkha as 'troublesome'; does this capture the essential meaning?

:thinking:

:shrug:

:coffee:

David2
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Re: Morning Coffee Pali Musing

Postby David2 » Thu Jun 28, 2012 11:26 am


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bodom
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Re: Morning Coffee Pali Musing

Postby bodom » Thu Jun 28, 2012 11:49 am

Personally I've always preferred the translation "stress" for dukkha. I think "troublesome" also captures the meaning pretty well.

:anjali:
To study is to know the texts,
To practice is to know your defilements,
To attain the goal is to know and let go.

- Ajahn Lee Dhammadharo


With mindfulness immersed in the body
well established, restrained
with regard to the six media of contact,
always centered, the monk
can know Unbinding for himself.

- Ud 3.5


https://www.dhammatalks.org/index.html
http://www.ajahnchah.org/

lucky-2012
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Re: Morning Coffee Pali Musing

Postby lucky-2012 » Thu Jun 28, 2012 12:23 pm

Nice musing!

Isnt 'troublesome' an adjective though, and 'dukkha' a noun?

So I would say 'troublesome' describes 'dukkha', but they are not interchangeable...

:thinking:

With metta
"Make it your sport — watching the defilements and making them starve, like a person giving up an addiction"

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/thai ... ensed.html

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piotr
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Re: Morning Coffee Pali Musing

Postby piotr » Thu Jun 28, 2012 12:26 pm

Hi,

Certainly when someone cuts your limbs with two-handed saw it is troublesome. But isn't it also a bit more than that? ;) What I'm getting at is that the semantic range of the word dukkha is so wide, that it's quite impossible to cover it with one modern word. Or so says a lot of translators…
Last edited by piotr on Thu Jun 28, 2012 12:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Bhagavaṃmūlakā no, bhante, dhammā...

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piotr
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Re: Morning Coffee Pali Musing

Postby piotr » Thu Jun 28, 2012 12:29 pm

Bhagavaṃmūlakā no, bhante, dhammā...

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Sam Vara
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Re: Morning Coffee Pali Musing

Postby Sam Vara » Thu Jun 28, 2012 12:30 pm

I like it. I can only think of two slight drawbacks.

First, we tend to use it more frquently in cases where the "fault" or agency resides outside of ourselves. What is troublesome is the cause or circumstance which gives rise to the trouble, rather than our response to it. "A troublesome wasp" or "A troublesome customer", for example. This would make further exploration into our contribution to the trouble a bit harder.

Second, as an adjective, it would need to be prefixed with "the" in order to make sense in some formulations. "The Noble Truth of The Troublesome", for example. "The Noble Truth of Trouble" has a touch of the bathetic. "Suffering" doubles as a noun or an adjective according to context, and "Stress" just needs "-full".

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Viscid
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Re: Morning Coffee Pali Musing

Postby Viscid » Thu Jun 28, 2012 3:13 pm

I don't think 'troublesome' quite captures the strain that dukkha places on the individual.. It conjures images of hyperactive children who enjoy running around and knocking things over.. Also saying 'birth is troublesome, aging is troublesome, death is troublesome' sounds quite.. funny..
"What holds attention determines action." - William James


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