Respect for Buddha images and offensive use of symbols

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
User avatar
mikenz66
Posts: 19941
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 7:37 am
Location: Aotearoa, New Zealand

Re: Respect for Buddha images and offensive use of symbols

Post by mikenz66 »

Viscid wrote: But isn't saying
"Using the Buddha's image in this way is bad." also saying
"People who use the Buddha's image in this way are bad?"
No, it's simply educating people about a culture. If they are educated they can then make informed choices about what they do.
Viscid wrote: Getting people angry over misuse of religious iconography is not fine.
Who is getting people angry?

:anjali:
Mike
User avatar
Mr Man
Posts: 4016
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2011 8:42 am

Re: Respect for Buddha images and offensive use of symbols

Post by Mr Man »

mikenz66 wrote:
Who is getting people angry?
I don't know who is or who isn't getting angry and I don't much about the "Knowing Buddha organization" but I do know that reactionary and xenophobic forces are often at play in Thailand. Looking at the home page the http://www.knowingbuddha.org/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, In my opinion I would say that it is a bit upside down.

The Brahma statue in vegas is a replica of the Brahma housed in the famus Erawan Shrine which was vandalized a few years back. The image was attacked by a mad man with a hammer. He was subsequntly beaten to death.
User avatar
manas
Posts: 2678
Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2010 3:04 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Respect for Buddha images and offensive use of symbols

Post by manas »

Mr Man wrote: The Brahma statue in vegas is a replica of the Brahma housed in the famus Erawan Shrine which was vandalized a few years back. The image was attacked by a mad man with a hammer. He was subsequntly beaten to death.
I hope he was not beaten in retaliation for attacking the sculpture, because that would have been sadly ironic.

metta.
To the Buddha-refuge i go; to the Dhamma-refuge i go; to the Sangha-refuge i go.
User avatar
robertk
Posts: 5611
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 2:08 am

Re: Respect for Buddha images and offensive use of symbols

Post by robertk »

He was beaten to death on the spot, right in the center of Bangkok.
But the image was a hindu one and nothing to do with Buddhism. Still some Thai's think it has some special powers ..
User avatar
gavesako
Posts: 1794
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2009 5:16 pm

Re: Respect for Buddha images and offensive use of symbols

Post by gavesako »

If you want to know how the Thais generally relate to religious symbols and brahmanical-animist ceremonies which are believed to influence important national issues, see this article:
http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandal ... litics.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The destruction of the Brahma shrine was put direct connection with some political events that occurred afterwards. It was a bad omen, in other words.
:thinking:
Bhikkhu Gavesako
Kiṃkusalagavesī anuttaraṃ santivarapadaṃ pariyesamāno... (MN 26)

Access to Insight - Theravada texts
Ancient Buddhist Texts - Translations and history of Pali texts
Dhammatalks.org - Sutta translations
User avatar
Ben
Posts: 18438
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:49 am
Location: kanamaluka

Re: Respect for Buddha images and offensive use of symbols

Post by Ben »

Hmmm...
That is interesting, Bhante. It reminds me (somewhat) of the influence of the State, Sangha and the Laity in Burma.
kind regards,

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR

e: [email protected]..
User avatar
Mr Man
Posts: 4016
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2011 8:42 am

Re: Respect for Buddha images and offensive use of symbols

Post by Mr Man »

gavesako wrote:If you want to know how the Thais generally relate to religious symbols and brahmanical-animist ceremonies which are believed to influence important national issues,
I'm not sure if it is "believed" or more of a combination of believed/used/manipulated.
The destruction of the Brahma shrine was put direct connection with some political events that occurred afterwards. It was a bad omen, in other words.
The destruction of the Brahma shrine was certainly used to gain power points but in Thailand it is not always easy to tell what comes first and what follows.

:anjali:
User avatar
Mr Man
Posts: 4016
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2011 8:42 am

Re: Respect for Buddha images and offensive use of symbols

Post by Mr Man »

robertk wrote: But the image was a hindu one and nothing to do with Buddhism.
The shrine is predominantly patronaged by Buddhists though.
User avatar
gavesako
Posts: 1794
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2009 5:16 pm

Re: Respect for Buddha images and offensive use of symbols

Post by gavesako »

It seems the KnowingBuddha group have started an educational campaign by leaving comments on websites which market products disrespectful of Buddhism, such as this "Buddha Chair":

http://www.damngeeky.com/2012/06/07/ser ... l-feeling/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.pantip.com/cafe/religious/to ... 31746.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Bhikkhu Gavesako
Kiṃkusalagavesī anuttaraṃ santivarapadaṃ pariyesamāno... (MN 26)

Access to Insight - Theravada texts
Ancient Buddhist Texts - Translations and history of Pali texts
Dhammatalks.org - Sutta translations
User avatar
Viscid
Posts: 931
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2010 8:55 pm
Location: Toronto, Canada
Contact:

Re: Respect for Buddha images and offensive use of symbols

Post by Viscid »

gavesako wrote:It seems the KnowingBuddha group have started an educational campaign by leaving comments on websites which market products disrespectful of Buddhism, such as this "Buddha Chair":

http://www.damngeeky.com/2012/06/07/ser" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... l-feeling/
Phawat_s wrote: Stop Disrespecting "Buddha"
Don't you have any brain left?
.... I D I O T...
On the Internet, the more you say that you're offended by someone doing something, the more people're going to do it to get a reaction out of you.
:popcorn:
"What holds attention determines action." - William James
User avatar
gavesako
Posts: 1794
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2009 5:16 pm

Re: Respect for Buddha images and offensive use of symbols

Post by gavesako »

Venerable K. Sri Dhammananda Maha Thera

Are Buddhists Idol Worshippers?
Buddhists are not idol worshippers but ideal worshippers.


"The Buddha images are nothing more than symbolic representations of His great qualities. It is not unnatural that the deep respect for the Buddha should be expressed in some of the finest and most beautiful forms of art and sculpture the world has ever known. It is difficult to understand why some people look down on those who pay respect to images which represent holy religious teachers.
The calm and serene image of the Buddha has been a common concept of ideal beauty. The Buddha's image is the most precious, common asset of Asian cultures. Without the image of the Buddha, where can we find a serene, radiant and spiritually emancipated personality?"

http://www.budsas.org/ebud/whatbudbeliev/209.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

:buddha1:


Here is a nice visual presentation about the history of Buddha images in Thailand:

http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/his ... aiart.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Bhikkhu Gavesako
Kiṃkusalagavesī anuttaraṃ santivarapadaṃ pariyesamāno... (MN 26)

Access to Insight - Theravada texts
Ancient Buddhist Texts - Translations and history of Pali texts
Dhammatalks.org - Sutta translations
User avatar
Mr Man
Posts: 4016
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2011 8:42 am

Re: Respect for Buddha images and offensive use of symbols

Post by Mr Man »

gavesako wrote:It seems the KnowingBuddha group have started an educational campaign by leaving comments on websites which market products disrespectful of Buddhism, such as this "Buddha Chair":

http://www.damngeeky.com/2012/06/07/ser ... l-feeling/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Bhante, I don't really think leaving comments on websites constitutes an educational campaign and I'm also not sure if inanimate objects have the ability to be disrespectful.
:anjali:
User avatar
gavesako
Posts: 1794
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2009 5:16 pm

Re: Respect for Buddha images and offensive use of symbols

Post by gavesako »

Yes, it is the people who design and sell them who are now going to be targeted by the Knowing Buddha information campaign -- or perhaps we could call it a "public pressure" campaign. If lots of them leave comments (preferable polite, but there are bound to be some bad words mixed in as well) on the websites concerned, it might make the owners think twice about what they are doing.
Bhikkhu Gavesako
Kiṃkusalagavesī anuttaraṃ santivarapadaṃ pariyesamāno... (MN 26)

Access to Insight - Theravada texts
Ancient Buddhist Texts - Translations and history of Pali texts
Dhammatalks.org - Sutta translations
User avatar
Mr Man
Posts: 4016
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2011 8:42 am

Re: Respect for Buddha images and offensive use of symbols

Post by Mr Man »

gavesako wrote:Yes, it is the people who design and sell them who are now going to be targeted by the Knowing Buddha information campaign -- or perhaps we could call it a "public pressure" campaign. If lots of them leave comments (preferable polite, but there are bound to be some bad words mixed in as well) on the websites concerned, it might make the owners think twice about what they are doing.
How about "Knowing Buddha" spreading information about right speech? The Buddha chair etc are certainly insensitive (unintentionally?) but I'm not sure what actually puts the Buddhist religion in a worse light? Have you read the comments in Thai? Perhaps the people leaving the coments and "Knowing Buddha" need to think twice?
:anjali:
User avatar
gavesako
Posts: 1794
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2009 5:16 pm

Re: Respect for Buddha images and offensive use of symbols

Post by gavesako »

This is certainly an interesting case of observing cross-cultural misunderstandings and preconceptions/prejudices. On the Western side, there is quite a bit of cultural arrogance and insensitivity (towards any culture that is regarded as "less developed" and "not ours") which has historical roots. But even among Westerners sympathetic towards other cultures, and admiring other cultures for being more spiritual, there is a lack of basic knowledge concerning etiquette and body language (as we can often see when they visit a country like Thailand and behave in temples in ways that go against Thai cultural norms -- although if they read the travel guides carefully they should know better).
On the Thai side, and in the current political climate, there is also a sense of pride and anti-foreign sentiment which is now probably being directed against such perceived offensive acts by "ignorant Farangs". The comments range from fairly well-presented polite pleas to angry nationalist rants. Often their knowledge of English and their spelling is not very good.
Respect is common sense. Would you sit on a chair that have a photo of your parent's head? Common Sense. ค่ะ

Stop done thing this!

Shocking... why would they do this?

really stupid
But some of the Thai comments also urge the others to have a more open mind and simply accept that cultures are not the same and that there a different cultural perceptions of what is appropriate and what not. The Knowing Buddha organizers also urge people to use polite language, but unfortunately the English language skills of some of the Thai commentators are limited to a few rude words...

They have received an apology from the American company which makes the Buddha head furniture:
Apology from 21st-living design, The truth that hurts Buddhist hearts.

คำขอโทษ และที่มาที่น่าเจ็บปวด

"Words from 21st living design"

The starting product research emerged that nowadays you can find in the world market many locations (e.g. the Buddha Bars) and a wide variety of objects (pillows, bikinis, slippers, carpets,sneakers, water closets, bier bottles etc.) that represent images of the Buddha.
For these reasons, we thought it appropriate to proceed in making these objects, with an attitude of absolute respect and good faith.

We are sorry for having aroused feelings of disapproval, and we hope that these explanations can eliminate any negative sentiment.

21st living design

.................
They didn't say they will stop producing these product line.
Please help write to them at E: [email protected]

We admit that the growth of Buddha Bar has led the world of business that disrespects Buddha even more immensely. Buddhists have been too quite on this matter. Even though we've started quite late but it's better than never. We'd like to ask Buddhists and supporters, to please help us ban this company and help us stop all of these disrespectful acts towards Buddha.

We ,Buddhists really have to fix these issues at its core by giving proper knowledge. - Knowing Buddha Organization.
Bhikkhu Gavesako
Kiṃkusalagavesī anuttaraṃ santivarapadaṃ pariyesamāno... (MN 26)

Access to Insight - Theravada texts
Ancient Buddhist Texts - Translations and history of Pali texts
Dhammatalks.org - Sutta translations
Post Reply