Religion - Do we need it?

Casual discussion amongst spiritual friends.

Re: Religion - Do we need it?

Postby clw_uk » Sun Jun 07, 2009 12:21 am

Howdy Jechbi :hello:

As a practical matter, how do you propose to bring about the abolition of religion? By imposing non-religion as a matter of law? Or by aggressive proselytizing?


I try to promote secularism and rationality as much as i can, i would never force people to leave faith as that would go against one of my deeply held beliefs of freedom and free will. I do however ask questions and criticise when appropriate. It is my belief that with enough rational logical thinking then religions will fade away, the main thing standing in the way is the PC attitude of not pressing people in their beliefs, something im against since if their beliefs are so "true" they should stand up against scrutiny

And if you and other like-minded people somehow succeed in abolishing religion through one of these means, what will you do when the powers that be come after the beliefs that you hold dear?


Well i dont hold any beliefs dear. I practice buddhadhamma but that doesnt rely on blind faith since its based on observation on what is and is open to investigation through ones own exp. and scientific research into meditation etc. I dont want to see spirituality go but neither do i see the need to invoke the supernatural and have "faith" in order to be spiritual which to me means being able to be wise and exp. boundless love, compassion and ethical condudct and ending of dukkha etc. No need for gods, angels, heaven, hell, unicorns or vampires etc


I prefer individual choice in matters such as this, along with the recognition that in a civil society, we need to have respect for opposing views.


As i said i dont want to tell people what to do. Do i think religion will ever go? the answer is no which is why i usualy focus more on secularism. If religion must stay then it must stay out of the public sphere and remain private (however idealy religion should go since people will still take their beliefs into the public sphere in a secular goverment, i.e. USA)

Metta
“ Your mind is likewise blocked. But the right road awaits you still. Cast out your doubts, your fears and your desires, let go of grief and of hope as well, for where these rule , then the mind is their subject." Boetius
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Re: Religion - Do we need it?

Postby pink_trike » Sun Jun 07, 2009 12:27 am

Jechbi wrote:Howdy clw,
clw_uk wrote:I believe it [religion] needs to go because it has no evidence for it, there is no reason to believe or adhere to it. If religion was good then i would say it doesnt matter but it isnt, it has nasty elements that come through and spread not only thought the minds of the believers but into politics where its forced on others.

As a practical matter, how do you propose to bring about the abolition of religion? By imposing non-religion as a matter of law? Or by aggressive proselytizing?

And if you and other like-minded people somehow succeed in abolishing religion through one of these means, what will you do when the powers that be come after the beliefs that you hold dear?

I prefer individual choice in matters such as this, along with the recognition that in a civil society, we need to have respect for opposing views.


Hi Jechbi

along with the recognition that in a civil society, we need to have respect for opposing views.


Unless those views are irrational to the point of bordering on psychotic and dangerous to individual and societal health. I think it's time we reexamine the blanket acceptance of any old craziness that's packaged itself as "religion".


As a practical matter, how do you propose to bring about the abolition of religion? By imposing non-religion as a matter of law? Or by aggressive proselytizing?


By simply pointing out that the Emperor is wearing no clothes.

And if you and other like-minded people somehow succeed in abolishing religion through one of these means, what will you do when the powers that be come after the beliefs that you hold dear?


What makes you think that there are "powers" coming after religion? Religious people tend to feel threatened by something "out there" when their religious beliefs are put under the microscope or rejected as irrationality. Just because a growing number of people have examined religion/religiosity and found it to be false and useless doesn't mean anyone is coming after religion or religious people.
Vision is Mind
Mind is Empty
Emptiness is Clear Light
Clear Light is Union
Union is Great Bliss

- Dawa Gyaltsen

---

Disclaimer: I'm a non-religious practitioner of Theravada, Mahayana/Vajrayana, and Tibetan Bon Dzogchen mind-training.
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Re: Religion - Do we need it?

Postby tiltbillings » Sun Jun 07, 2009 1:37 am

While the question is of interest, the execution of it by the OP is less than productive in its black and white negativity. There are other venues for that sort of discussion. Religion, be it Buddhism or any of the theistic variations, has a role to play in human development. It should, however, never be above criticism, but there is no point in engaging in a scorched earth policy towards it, and for that reason this thread is locked.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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