Porn Free for 90 Days

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Re: Porn Free for 90 Days

Postby dhammapal » Tue May 15, 2012 10:38 am

To build good rapport with someone, your gaze should meet theirs 60% to 70% of the time.

BUSINESS GAZE - Imagine there is a triangle on the other person's forehead. Keep your gaze directed on this area. This will create a serious atmosphere. The other person will know you mean business.

SOCIAL GAZE - When the gaze drops below the other person's eye level, a social atmosphere develops. Look at the triangular area below the eyes (include the nose and mouth).

INTIMATE GAZE - This gaze goes across the eyes and below the chin to other parts of the body. When close it forms a triangle from the eyes to both sides of the chest or breasts. From a distance it is from the eyes to the crotch. If the person is interested, he/she will return the gaze.

The type of gaze you use in face to face encounters have powerful results. Use the appropriate gaze for this situation.
From: Where Do Your Eyes Gaze? by: Kathy Thompson

I think this is an argument against watching regular TV let alone porn. It is so tempting to use the intimate gaze because the woman on the TV can't see you. I would find it difficult to maintain the social gaze let alone the business gaze.

28 days.

With metta / dhammapal.
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Re: Porn Free for 90 Days

Postby Alobha » Tue May 22, 2012 8:40 pm

Hello everyone,

i just finished the 90 days Challenge today and would like to give everyone, who is doing this or considers doing it, a review of my experiences.

One of the reasons i took part in this challenge is because i could see the value in it. I'm still quite young and while i was not addicted to porn, there certainly was clinging to pleasant female forms and bodily stimulation (and suffering because of that clinging, too.). It used to make me tired and sometimes unsatisfied - which is not surprising when one craves.

So, what did i do?
I applied mindfulness to all objects related to this matter throughout the day. When my eyes made contact with a form (a pretty girl, legs, breast, a smile, a charming face) and it moved into my consciousness, i noticed whether it was related to a pleasant, unpleasant or neutral feeling.
If there was a pleasant feeling, i watched whether there was a will or craving for the form. It's the same for the unpleasant feeling, but you have to look whether there is the will or craving for avoiding the object / getting away from the object.

The same procedure was applied when related thoughts made contact with the mind, when form-impressions made contact with the mind, when bodily sensations made contact with consciousness, when impressions of bodily sensations made contact with the mind and when particular sounds made contact with the ear (heard my neighbours making love! :D), ... the teaching of dependent origination / Paticca samuppada is of greatest value for better applying mindfulness and understanding how craving is lessend or empowered.

How did it work out?
The first days or few weeks had some tough moments. The mind clinged to old habits and struggles and tends to try go with aversion to "get rid of these objects". Aversion just creates more tension and this tendency of the mind came up a few times. I underestimated this danger sometimes at first, too.

Interestingly, i find that the mind get's tired of watching how it clinges rather fast. I repeated mindful observations as often as possible, on many occassions every day. As soon as the mind understood, that there is no stimulation coming, lust was seeking other channels to express itself.
I had a phase where i made much more dirty jokes than usual. So many bad dirty jokes, that it was impossible not to notice :D
Another phase was where the lust tries to enforce other aspects, like much more thoughts about relationships, love, loving a partner (not just physically), seeking more contact to other people, wishing to be together with people more closely and so on. It led me to observe these matters more closely too.

I didn't think this whole project would be such a big deal, but after 90 days i see that from a different perspective. I only realized how much sexuality influenced my way of thinking, talking and behaving after the impact of sexuality on my actions startened to lessen. When i met a very pretty girl a week ago, i was amazed how openly we could talk with each other - i had no intention to find out whether there would be chances to make out, nor did i behave in any particular way to not "waste chances", but just talked very openly. Without sexuality affecting getting to know that girl, we had some wonderful discussions just because i did not worry about whether i could be rejected. I was excited when she told me that she met another guy last week and that they got along really well - i was happy for that girl to find even more good company!
Overall, many things got way less complicated, especially during the last 3 weeks. I'm much more at peace with myself and the world, especially after i realized that occasional longing for a partner was also linked to lust. There is less craving for other people in general now. I don't get upset when friends cancel plans to hang out, i just don't crave for other persons that much anymore and i feel more at peace with being alone. And yes, the most obvious: i'm more content with being single and there is less to none craving for sexual stimulation (whether it's the eye or the body). The last couple of weeks, i did not even consider watching porn or anything like that - i just had no interest in it at all. Same for bodily stimulation - i just don't find anything of interest in it and the idea doesn't come up in the mind anymore.

Before the start i already told myself that i won't deny having a partnership when the opportunity just comes up. I still don't persist on going on with celibacy for the rest of my life. I don't crave for continueing with celibacy, but i just feel content and comfortable with continuing now. It's not stressful, it's not tiring. When i go to sleep, i don't go to sleep dissatisfied and tired from lust. During the day and when i wake up, i feel more energized than i used to.

However, the most important thing for me is: My mind is much more at ease, my overall well-being / contentness increased - i often experienced intense forms of joy resulting from renunciation during the last couple of weeks :smile: All of this gives rise to more kindness towards myself and others, too. While the first weeks were difficult sometimes, it was definately all worth it. This challenge was (and still is!) a great opportunity to learn important lessons about the mind and i want to thank everyone who participated in this thread with their input. Sexuality is a topic deeply entrenched in modern western society and strongly linked with pleasantness and greed. If one wants to put effort into dealing with the kilesas, this may be an overlooked, but great chance.

Best wishes and much metta,
Alobha
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Re: Porn Free for 90 Days

Postby Modus.Ponens » Tue May 22, 2012 9:10 pm

Thanks for your report Alobha! That was very interesting. :smile:
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"
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Re: Porn Free for 90 Days

Postby reflection » Tue May 22, 2012 9:57 pm

Thanks for the report Alobha! :anjali: Nice to see you are doing well. :twothumbsup:

For me it is not going as planned. I still have not found the right conviction yet, but nonetheless I'm still working on it daily. I am guessing full conviction of the uselessness of sensuality only comes with non-returning, so maybe I'm aiming a bit too high :tongue: and should act (or rather, not act :jumping: ) based more on faith. Anyway, due to body contemplation, pornography and sexual activities do get more repelling with time and are losing their grip slowly; this I can clearly see. Also, in general my meditation is more peaceful (not as peaceful as ever, but considering the busy life I have now, it goes pretty well), so I think it'll work out in the end. Even if it takes much longer than 90 days, it'll probably be worth it. Next lifetime maybe, or maybe 7 days.. who knows. :?: But who doesn't try, doesn't win. ;)

Metta to all,
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Re: Porn Free for 90 Days

Postby mikenz66 » Wed May 23, 2012 1:24 am

Thanks for sharing Alobha. Very inspirational!

:anjali:
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Re: Porn Free for 90 Days

Postby dhamma_newb » Wed May 23, 2012 3:50 am

Hi Alobha,

Congratulations and thanks for sharing your experiences. I think your use of Dependent Origination to complete the 90 days was pretty smart of you.
The watched mind brings happiness.
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Re: Porn Free for 90 Days

Postby perkele » Thu May 24, 2012 8:25 am

Hello!

Nice reflection, Alobha. Well done.
I just came here to admit that I have failed to keep with my adhitanna, and in order to at least keep with what I said earlier I have to announce it here, although it's almost two weeks late. Anyhow, I don't feel bad about it and the effort was a good one. It has changed my perception in good ways on many levels. I won't make any more promises, but I'll continue developing my meditation and with trying to put all things in a proper perspective, because I see the good results. And my excuse for coming out with it so late is that I had more useful stuff to do, for example going to yet another meditation retreat.
May the force be with you all! And I wish the best success for all those who are going on with this effort and also for those who are not. May you all find and maintain peace and clarity of mind in all aspects of your life. And once again I'd like to thank Don for starting this up and all those who gave helpful input.
:bow:

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Re: Porn Free for 90 Days

Postby befriend » Thu May 24, 2012 1:31 pm

well done alobha!, its inspired me to work on this aspect. im wondering did you take a vow each morning or any vows to help you?
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Re: Porn Free for 90 Days

Postby Alobha » Thu May 24, 2012 8:57 pm

befriend wrote:well done alobha!, its inspired me to work on this aspect. im wondering did you take a vow each morning or any vows to help you?


During the start for about the first or first two weeks i did, yes. It can help getting over the rough patches. Personally, i found it more helpful to make a promise to a close friend / to gather allies (like in the thread here). Another step however, that helped me to stay mindful and motivated when i was close to giving up sometimes, was to be curious and apply the mindfulness to the objects that seem to create the most tensions.
E.g. I just remembered that during the first days, i thought i would "go mad" if i don't get relief sometimes (especially in the morning :D ).
"I will get mad" "I will get crazy" "I can't do it." "this will never go away!" - if you acknowledge this stuff really ask yourself "Will i really get mad? Will that happen if there is no relief right now? Will i jump around, will my head explode, will i turn insane? Let's find out what happens when i wait." Curiousity to find out what happens is helpful to just stay mindful and not act on the lust. Wait for what happens and watch carefully for madness and explosions ( ;) ), tensions and lust will just fade away sooner or later.

That may just be me, but i find when one has a hard time and is about to give up, the mind is usually going wild, searching for excuses why it's ok to give up or why one has to give in to things. If one is just mindful of these silly ideas and see them for what they are, they loose a lot of their power. Taking a vow or to remind yourself of your goal on several informal occassions and why you do it is good for keeping up overall determination.
I find it more problematic what to do when the mind is "just now" caught up in lust, with the body in an acute state of tension and one struggles. In these acute situations i rather went for mindfulness of the situation in regard to dependent origination. whether it's the feelings in the body, thoughts or what else is drawing the attention. The other tendency of thoughts "It will be so unbelievable great to get relief" as opposed to "Something terrible will happen it i don't get my relief" can be deconstructed with recollecting past experience and knowledge about dukkha, too. You do know that craving will come back, that you will never satisfy lust, that giving in will not ultimatively make you happier in the longterm. If you are not to sure about these things, you can also go with the thought that it's unsure. Maybe giving in will make you happier in the longterm, but you decided to take a break for it for xx days to find out how it feels without it. The mind may get quiet if it is put off with "Yeah ok, after the 90 days we can do that. For now let's see how it is without. Let's give this a chance."

I'm happy to hear that my reflections offer some inspiration :smile: Of course everyone needs to find out for oneself what works. Maybe i'm the only one who used to think i would get crazy :D

Best wishes,
Alobha
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Re: Porn Free for 90 Days

Postby cooran » Thu May 24, 2012 8:58 pm

Good One, Alobha! :twothumbsup:

Thanks Perkele – for the effort you put in, for your honesty, for your ongoing work with meditation, and for the obvious benefits you achieved. :twothumbsup:

with metta
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---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---
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Masturbation:A sensitive topic( need more discussions)!

Postby Vlcimba » Mon Jul 16, 2012 3:33 am

HI people :D i have been crawling around the forums for quite awhile :) but i have looked at other forums too and this seems to be the most active one . :focus: . It has been awhile since i have this taught about opening a topic or if not a guide about how to quit masturbation as i myself have been a victim and i understand how it affects alot of our buddhist lifes. So i need as much help as possiuble and i hope you guys can provide me as many as possible buddhist references about lust and sufferings to help me finish the guide asap and i will post at this forum. PS: which subforum should i post my guide in ? sorry i am new here . And i need as much discussion as possible thank you :)。 amituofo :anjali:


PS: JUST TO MAKE IT SIMPLE. Just share your views on masturbation

http://www.dailybuddhism.com/archives/1081 This provides just a slight idea of how i am going to write my guide , provides quite good info
Last edited by Vlcimba on Mon Jul 16, 2012 6:38 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Masturbation:A sensitive topic( need more discussions)!

Postby Durt_Dawg » Mon Jul 16, 2012 3:50 am

I've been there homes, I think it simply takes to time to lessen and eventually transcend this habit. I was pretty attached to watching alot of porn and spankin da monkey. But I think the most important thing that helped to over come this sensual greed is by having a sense of guilt and wrongdoing, I've seen youtube clips and Buddhist blogs telling people not to feel "guilty" cause it's a Christian thing to do. However, when I googled Chinese Buddhist resources, people tend to take the guilt/sinful approach when it comes to choking the chicken.

If we don't even think there is anything wrong with our delusional and dukkah causing habits, then how can we over come it? Anyway, don't worry about relapsing and letting Mrs Palmer and her five daughters take control sometimes, these habits are developed by us over countless rebirth in samsara, so just takes time.

Just have a healthy sense of shame homes, no need to think about castration or anything lol!
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Re: Masturbation:A sensitive topic( need more discussions)!

Postby Vlcimba » Mon Jul 16, 2012 3:58 am

Yeah dude i get what your saying. Btw, i have completely stopped whanking after 3 months of hard work. Well i dont know if you got me right, what i meant was writing a guide about masturbation and approaching it in a more mature and buddhist way. like you said, instead of forcing it , i want to write a guide by stopping masturbation with the will, i have been there, and i know forcing it doesnt help, i , too, have seen the chinese way of stopping it, telling how bad it is to masturbate. it probably will help, but it doesnt solve the root of the problem. to stop masturbation, looking at it in a buddhism or even a scientific way, Will is the most needed thing . and i believe by training people to have the willpower, the determination, to stop masturbating , is better than telling them the bad karma they are going to get by masturbating .

PS for my writing , had to rush it .
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Re: Masturbation:A sensitive topic( need more discussions)!

Postby Durt_Dawg » Mon Jul 16, 2012 4:21 am

Vlcimba wrote:Yeah dude i get what your saying. Btw, i have completely stopped whanking after 3 months of hard work. Well i dont know if you got me right, what i meant was writing a guide about masturbation and approaching it in a more mature and buddhist way. like you said, instead of forcing it , i want to write a guide by stopping masturbation with the will, i have been there, and i know forcing it doesnt help, i , too, have seen the chinese way of stopping it, telling how bad it is to masturbate. it probably will help, but it doesnt solve the root of the problem. to stop masturbation, looking at it in a buddhism or even a scientific way, Will is the most needed thing . and i believe by training people to have the willpower, the determination, to stop masturbating , is better than telling them the bad karma they are going to get by masturbating .

PS for my writing , had to rush it .

Sadly you are right, it's hard to use the Karma argument in the West. People are way too clever these days for that, you say one thing I am sure they will refute you with 100 evidance from scientific and medical sources over the internet. It's hard not to have all those backings cause sex sells... But sounds like you got the determination and desire to help people wid this! So you got my spiritual support homeboy!!!!

By the way, maybe you can google for net sources that talks about Brain plasticity, these neural research scientifically proves the impermanence of our Brain structure, especially when it comes to sexual stimulation and habits. The causes that triggers our lust and are actively changed by the amount of porn and imagery we are subject to. So I suppose thats a good way to counter the argument of "it's only natural".
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Re: Masturbation:A sensitive topic( need more discussions)!

Postby Vlcimba » Mon Jul 16, 2012 4:32 am

Durt_Dawg wrote:
Vlcimba wrote:Yeah dude i get what your saying. Btw, i have completely stopped whanking after 3 months of hard work. Well i dont know if you got me right, what i meant was writing a guide about masturbation and approaching it in a more mature and buddhist way. like you said, instead of forcing it , i want to write a guide by stopping masturbation with the will, i have been there, and i know forcing it doesnt help, i , too, have seen the chinese way of stopping it, telling how bad it is to masturbate. it probably will help, but it doesnt solve the root of the problem. to stop masturbation, looking at it in a buddhism or even a scientific way, Will is the most needed thing . and i believe by training people to have the willpower, the determination, to stop masturbating , is better than telling them the bad karma they are going to get by masturbating .

PS for my writing , had to rush it .

Sadly you are right, it's hard to use the Karma argument in the West. People are way too clever these days for that, you say one thing I am sure they will refute you with 100 evidance from scientific and medical sources over the internet. It's hard not to have all those backings cause sex sells... But sounds like you got the determination and desire to help people wid this! So you got my spiritual support homeboy!!!!

By the way, maybe you can google for net sources that talks about Brain plasticity, these neural research scientifically proves the impermanence of our Brain structure, especially when it comes to sexual stimulation and habits. The causes that triggers our lust and are actively changed by the amount of porn and imagery we are subject to. So I suppose thats a good way to counter the argument of "it's only natural".


Yeah everyone in the west and now even asians are just answering with " hey, whanking is a part of life, its just normal , hormones are uncontrollable". The fact is, its partly true , but its scientifically proven that the health benefits of masturbating is minimal, it reduces the chances of getting prostate cancer, but the chances of getting it in the first place is already beyond little. So i am thinking of a sciencetific and buddhism way of solving this problem, cause everyone in the world believe in science more than their own religion nowadays. And i am awfullly glad that you understand , as half of the world, including my buds, don't realise how porn can actually poison their minds. I agree to some extent that infrequent watching doesnt cause any long-term probnlems , but addictions normally lead to frequent usage gradually, and it certainly is a problem. Anyways, just to sum up everthing i just said, if science can prove masturbating is healthy, sceince can also prove that we can live a healthy life without it , and its safer to not mastuirbate , as we buddhists should believe that there is the presence of karma, whether it is scientifically proigven or not.
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Re: Masturbation:A sensitive topic( need more discussions)!

Postby Vlcimba » Mon Jul 16, 2012 4:41 am

Need more discussions going around:D As i need to make sure that the facts are as accurate as possible in my guide :anjali:
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Re: Masturbation:A sensitive topic( need more discussions)!

Postby Viscid » Mon Jul 16, 2012 4:41 am

You two sound like the exact same person. :spy:

So you got my spiritual support homeboy!!!!


This sounds like some bad 80s teen movie impersonation.
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Re: Masturbation:A sensitive topic( need more discussions)!

Postby Vlcimba » Mon Jul 16, 2012 4:45 am

Viscid wrote:You two sound like the exact same person. :spy:

So you got my spiritual support homeboy!!!!


This sounds like some bad 80s teen movie impersonation.

Lol. GET :focus: ! http://www.dailybuddhism.com/archives/1081 btw people i found this archive from some dead forum but it provides quite good info but just not detailed enough.
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Re: Masturbation:A sensitive topic( need more discussions)!

Postby Durt_Dawg » Mon Jul 16, 2012 4:56 am

Keep up da good work homes, although don't try to convince too many people with the Dharma too early, cause you will end up suffering more when you don't have enough good affinities, conditions and wisdom.

I don't know wat ya causes and conditions are, but I was fortunate enough to meet a very good Sangha when I discovered Buddhism, so I was able to dettach myself from my old environment and old friends with bad influence. Although it doesn't mean i's become one of dem boring ass hermit or nothing, still a true G working in the civil engineering industry, just left all the silly things behind. So yeah, hopefully if ya able to, reduce as much negative influences as you can. It's easier to be a bad thug than a good thug these days :(
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Re: Masturbation:A sensitive topic( need more discussions)!

Postby Vlcimba » Mon Jul 16, 2012 5:21 am

Durt_Dawg wrote:Keep up da good work homes, although don't try to convince too many people with the Dharma too early, cause you will end up suffering more when you don't have enough good affinities, conditions and wisdom.

I don't know wat ya causes and conditions are, but I was fortunate enough to meet a very good Sangha when I discovered Buddhism, so I was able to dettach myself from my old environment and old friends with bad influence. Although it doesn't mean i's become one of dem boring ass hermit or nothing, still a true G working in the civil engineering industry, just left all the silly things behind. So yeah, hopefully if ya able to, reduce as much negative influences as you can. It's easier to be a bad thug than a good thug these days :(

Yeah, thats what i have been wondering alot these days, but thats the reason i am not writing it all by myself, and i have bad influences too. the best example is the internet, its the most useful source, but is the worse too. I dont think i have the wisdom or even the experience with the Dharma to really associate it with addiciton, but its good to have ya around . You really can read minds man. For me , the only source to study buddhism is from a monk posting videos online on youtube, his quite widely recognized though, so i trust him fully. And thats what i think us buddhists should do. We should start trusting Buddhism teaching instead of doubting it . And i do neeed alot of your help in the guide that i will be posting in a month time. I am an easily influenced person, i wasnt so much to porn actrually, but duriung my teenage years i met bad people, starterd watching porn and whanking. Went clubbing. Stopped all of that because of youtube. Understood more about buddhism thanks to youtube. so hey, look at the bright side, the internet is a savior too.

PS: you have an awesome job :)

25 now . still wanting to get that degree, working part-time at mcdonalds but hey, having a happy life man :D
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