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Jhana Question - Dhamma Wheel

Jhana Question

The cultivation of calm or tranquility and the development of concentration
Micheal Kush
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Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2012 8:47 pm

Jhana Question

Postby Micheal Kush » Thu Jul 19, 2012 9:52 pm

To give a little background, I am doing breathing meditation or mindfulness of breathing and currently am trying to reach the jhanas and have been going at it for quite a while(6 months). After reading much about how to enter it, i was hindered by much confusion as regards to method.

My method of doing breathing meditation of consists of focusing on the felt breath at the tip of the nose while being aware of other sensations. And i was told that one should keep attention on the breath till the factors of jhana appears.

Yet i was also told, that to achieve jhana one must follow the tetrads. However i thought it was uneccessary to keep attention on whether the breath is short or long and other stuff like that.

Are both methods acceptable? Or is only one right? And is the tetrads supposed to be a faster way from transitioning from jhana to insight?

With metta, mike

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Ben
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Location: kanamaluka

Re: Jhana Question

Postby Ben » Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:07 pm

Greetings Mike,
Just maintain awareness of the touch of the breath for as long as possible. If the breath becomes so subtle that the touch sensation of breath is not discernable, maintain continuous awareness of point where the touch sensation is perceived and avert your awareness to any sensation that arises on that spot until the breath sensation is perceived again.
I recommend that you read the section on anapana-sati in the visuddhimagga.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... on2011.pdf
kind regards,

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: ben.dhammawheel@gmail.com..

Micheal Kush
Posts: 72
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2012 8:47 pm

Re: Jhana Question

Postby Micheal Kush » Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:45 pm

Thanks for the clarification. But what do you do when a jhana factor arises(bliss), should one maintain focused on the breath with the bliss in the background?

With metta,mike

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LonesomeYogurt
Posts: 900
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:24 pm
Location: America

Re: Jhana Question

Postby LonesomeYogurt » Fri Jul 20, 2012 12:12 am

Gain and loss, status and disgrace,
censure and praise, pleasure and pain:
these conditions among human beings are inconstant,
impermanent, subject to change.

Knowing this, the wise person, mindful,
ponders these changing conditions.
Desirable things don’t charm the mind,
undesirable ones bring no resistance.

His welcoming and rebelling are scattered,
gone to their end,
do not exist.
- Lokavipatti Sutta


Micheal Kush
Posts: 72
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2012 8:47 pm

Re: Jhana Question

Postby Micheal Kush » Fri Jul 20, 2012 12:46 am

Thanks for the beneficial advice. As a matter of fact, i believe i corrected that mistake during my last session. In my last session, i felt a deep aura of relaxation and noticed that my breath became quite subtle but not subtle enough that it felt like i wasnt breath, i was aware that i was breathing. So far, my thoughts have slowly evaporated and i feel with continued persistence, i may access concentration but i feel unsure on how the nimitta would arise. When i fel that deep relaxation, i questioned whether it was the bliss factor building up or just a product of the meditation so i just continued on with the breath.

I just find it hard to believe that i am close to attaining jhana because for one thing, my duration is what you would* call professional(20 minutes is sort of newbish) . But thanks a million for the info, it is truly indespensable!

With Metta, mike

P.S i always try hard to brush away the concept of attaining jhana and just remain absorped in the breathing hope that helps

Edit: Wouldnt is the right word srry

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Ben
Posts: 18442
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Location: kanamaluka

Re: Jhana Question

Postby Ben » Fri Jul 20, 2012 2:09 am

Hi Mike

There is a tendency for a lot of people to think about and anticipate experiences and events while they'r ein meditation.
Best to keep your attention firmly fixed on the breath and be relaxed about whatever else arises.
If you just pay attention to the breath, jhana will look after itself.
kind regards,

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: ben.dhammawheel@gmail.com..

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reflection
Posts: 1116
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:27 pm

Re: Jhana Question

Postby reflection » Fri Jul 20, 2012 7:57 am

Take it easy. Don't search for the fastest way or the 'correct way'. Don't think ' if I do this and this and this, I will attain something'. Don't even think you are close. Obsession on gaining jhana is a surefire way to not experience it.

That's because jhana's are relinquishments, not something to do or gain. In fact, in absorption you can not do or will anything at all. It takes care of itself, totally out of your control.

So let go.

Metta,
Reflection
:anjali:

Micheal Kush
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Re: Jhana Question

Postby Micheal Kush » Fri Jul 20, 2012 12:21 pm


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Aloka
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Re: Jhana Question

Postby Aloka » Fri Jul 20, 2012 2:11 pm

Hi Mike,

I'm not sure if the mind will reach jhana if one is intentionally watching breathing.

Buddha said : "There is the case where a monk, a disciple of the noble ones, making it his object to let go, attains concentration, attains singleness of mind."



I highly recommend that you read Ajahn Brahm's book "Mindfulness, Bliss and Beyond " for some preliminary instructions.

with kind wishes

Aloka

Nyana
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Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 11:56 am

Re: Jhana Question

Postby Nyana » Fri Jul 20, 2012 4:33 pm


suttametta
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Re: Jhana Question

Postby suttametta » Fri Jul 20, 2012 5:54 pm

My practice is a little different than the touch awareness method. I am simply being mindful of the state of my breathing as the sutta says, "I am aware my breath is short," or "I am aware my breath is long." I breathe in, calming the body. I breathe out sensitive to pleasure, etc. By being aware of the breath this way it slows and stops, whereupon I reflect on the nature of senses and the four noble truths. Finally, I perceive the nature of consciousness that is "without surface or feature..." I see this as mindfulness all the way through where the brightness and luminous quality becomes ever purer.

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manas
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Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Jhana Question

Postby manas » Fri Jul 20, 2012 8:55 pm

Then the Blessed One, picking up a tiny bit of dust with the tip of his fingernail, said to the monk, "There isn't even this much form...feeling...
perception...fabrications...consciousness that is constant, lasting, eternal, not subject to change, that will stay just as it is as long as eternity."

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LonesomeYogurt
Posts: 900
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:24 pm
Location: America

Re: Jhana Question

Postby LonesomeYogurt » Fri Jul 20, 2012 10:13 pm

Gain and loss, status and disgrace,
censure and praise, pleasure and pain:
these conditions among human beings are inconstant,
impermanent, subject to change.

Knowing this, the wise person, mindful,
ponders these changing conditions.
Desirable things don’t charm the mind,
undesirable ones bring no resistance.

His welcoming and rebelling are scattered,
gone to their end,
do not exist.
- Lokavipatti Sutta


User avatar
reflection
Posts: 1116
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:27 pm

Re: Jhana Question

Postby reflection » Fri Jul 20, 2012 10:22 pm


User avatar
reflection
Posts: 1116
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:27 pm

Re: Jhana Question

Postby reflection » Fri Jul 20, 2012 10:31 pm


Micheal Kush
Posts: 72
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2012 8:47 pm

Re: Jhana Question

Postby Micheal Kush » Fri Jul 20, 2012 10:38 pm


Nyana
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Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 11:56 am

Re: Jhana Question

Postby Nyana » Fri Jul 20, 2012 10:44 pm


Nyana
Posts: 2233
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 11:56 am

Re: Jhana Question

Postby Nyana » Fri Jul 20, 2012 10:46 pm


Micheal Kush
Posts: 72
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2012 8:47 pm

Re: Jhana Question

Postby Micheal Kush » Fri Jul 20, 2012 10:48 pm


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manas
Posts: 2251
Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2010 3:04 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Jhana Question

Postby manas » Sat Jul 21, 2012 12:14 am

Then the Blessed One, picking up a tiny bit of dust with the tip of his fingernail, said to the monk, "There isn't even this much form...feeling...
perception...fabrications...consciousness that is constant, lasting, eternal, not subject to change, that will stay just as it is as long as eternity."


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