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the great vegetarian debate - Page 91 - Dhamma Wheel

the great vegetarian debate

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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manas
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Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby manas » Sat Jul 21, 2012 8:42 pm

I was a 'flexitarian' (if that refers to someone who does not purchase meat for their own use, but will eat it out of politeness, while a guest at someone's home etc), but I have had to give that up, because after years of mostly vegetarianism, when I do eat animal flesh my mind gets darkened the next day. So I am not criticizing anyone else here, because I wish I could just 'gratefully accept whatever is offered'; but since meat can cause a depressive mind-state for a day or two after consumption - and this has happened too many times for me to think it a mere coincidence - I will now have to just tell people that my system cannot handle meat at all, I just have to politely decline it. I wonder if any other long-term vegetarians have noticed how, if you do venture to eat some meat, the mind is affected? I would be interested to hear.

In the interests of complete honesty, I need to add that I ate two little tins of tuna that I bought for myself recently, so I wasn't being compelled, I just thought my body might benefit from some extra 'animal protein' as I've often heard well-meaning relatives say to me. But once again, a day of depression followed, and now I really am seeing a connection between any meat consumption, even just a bit of fish, and my state of mind. That's it for me, no more meat experiments!

with metta

:anjali:
Last edited by manas on Sat Jul 21, 2012 8:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Then the Blessed One, picking up a tiny bit of dust with the tip of his fingernail, said to the monk, "There isn't even this much form...feeling...
perception...fabrications...consciousness that is constant, lasting, eternal, not subject to change, that will stay just as it is as long as eternity."

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LonesomeYogurt
Posts: 900
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Location: America

Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby LonesomeYogurt » Sat Jul 21, 2012 8:50 pm

I know for certain that my gut is affected!
Gain and loss, status and disgrace,
censure and praise, pleasure and pain:
these conditions among human beings are inconstant,
impermanent, subject to change.

Knowing this, the wise person, mindful,
ponders these changing conditions.
Desirable things don’t charm the mind,
undesirable ones bring no resistance.

His welcoming and rebelling are scattered,
gone to their end,
do not exist.
- Lokavipatti Sutta


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Cittasanto
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby Cittasanto » Sat Jul 21, 2012 9:34 pm



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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LonesomeYogurt
Posts: 900
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:24 pm
Location: America

Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby LonesomeYogurt » Sat Jul 21, 2012 10:22 pm

Gain and loss, status and disgrace,
censure and praise, pleasure and pain:
these conditions among human beings are inconstant,
impermanent, subject to change.

Knowing this, the wise person, mindful,
ponders these changing conditions.
Desirable things don’t charm the mind,
undesirable ones bring no resistance.

His welcoming and rebelling are scattered,
gone to their end,
do not exist.
- Lokavipatti Sutta


danieLion
Posts: 1947
Joined: Wed May 25, 2011 4:49 am

Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby danieLion » Sat Jul 21, 2012 11:25 pm

Not sure if this the best place to bring this up (could be it's own topic) but are there any thoughts on the Paleo diet? My doc's trying to get me on it (I see her for chronic back pain).
Best,
Daniel

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Cittasanto
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby Cittasanto » Sat Jul 21, 2012 11:38 pm



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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Spiny Norman
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby Spiny Norman » Sun Jul 22, 2012 1:01 pm

"My religion is very simple - my religion is ice-cream."
Dairy Lama

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Cittasanto
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby Cittasanto » Sun Jul 22, 2012 2:25 pm



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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Cittasanto
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby Cittasanto » Sun Jul 22, 2012 2:50 pm



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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Cittasanto
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Location: Ellan Vannin
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby Cittasanto » Sun Jul 22, 2012 2:59 pm



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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Ron-The-Elder
Posts: 1885
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 4:42 pm
Location: Concord, New Hampshire, U.S.A.

Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby Ron-The-Elder » Sun Jul 22, 2012 4:26 pm

What Makes an Elder? :
A head of gray hairs doesn't mean one's an elder. Advanced in years, one's called an old fool.
But one in whom there is truth, restraint, rectitude, gentleness,self-control, he's called an elder, his impurities disgorged, enlightened.
-Dhammpada, 19, translated by Thanissaro Bhikkhu.

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Durt_Dawg
Posts: 37
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2012 3:43 am

Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby Durt_Dawg » Sun Jul 22, 2012 9:17 pm

Sigh... its not about break da rule or Buddha said "no". It's about how much compassion you have or how much you want to cultivate ya compassion!

Ya really gonna choke da kitten ta death so ya can havea meow pie?! Know wat im sayin?
Lets b fwendssss!!!!

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Cittasanto
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby Cittasanto » Sun Jul 22, 2012 9:23 pm



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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marc108
Posts: 464
Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2012 10:10 pm

Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby marc108 » Sun Jul 22, 2012 9:53 pm

"It's easy for us to connect with what's wrong with us... and not so easy to feel into, or to allow us, to connect with what's right and what's good in us."

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retrofuturist
Site Admin
Posts: 17855
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby retrofuturist » Sun Jul 22, 2012 11:59 pm

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Ron-The-Elder
Posts: 1885
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 4:42 pm
Location: Concord, New Hampshire, U.S.A.

Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby Ron-The-Elder » Mon Jul 23, 2012 1:19 am

But, that is the whole point. Laypersons are held to the same standards as monks under Right Livelihood. If we support butchery then we are in effect supporting wrong livelihood. :buddha2:
What Makes an Elder? :
A head of gray hairs doesn't mean one's an elder. Advanced in years, one's called an old fool.
But one in whom there is truth, restraint, rectitude, gentleness,self-control, he's called an elder, his impurities disgorged, enlightened.
-Dhammpada, 19, translated by Thanissaro Bhikkhu.

User avatar
retrofuturist
Site Admin
Posts: 17855
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby retrofuturist » Mon Jul 23, 2012 1:28 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

User avatar
Cittasanto
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Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:31 pm
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby Cittasanto » Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:42 am

Last edited by Cittasanto on Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:48 am, edited 1 time in total.


He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

User avatar
Cittasanto
Posts: 6524
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:31 pm
Location: Ellan Vannin
Contact:

Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby Cittasanto » Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:43 am



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

User avatar
Spiny Norman
Posts: 4918
Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 10:32 am
Location: Spam, wonderful spam

Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby Spiny Norman » Mon Jul 23, 2012 8:16 am

"My religion is very simple - my religion is ice-cream."
Dairy Lama


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