Buddhism and religion

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
Hoo
Posts: 189
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 2:24 am
Location: Missouri, USA

Re: Buddhism and religion

Postby Hoo » Mon Jun 08, 2009 4:09 am

My apologies for not keeping my fingers off the send button. My apologies, too, for not being the Buddhist I wish I could be. I sometimes struggle with a long history of anger, cynicism, and argumentativeness, and this exchange just hit me at a weak moment.

For what it's worth, my opinion is that PT has every right to pose any question that's within the TOS. He's under no obligation to perform according to someone else's standards = opinions about what he should do are about as valuable as any other opinion. He has the right to not live up to anyone's expectations.

By like token, tiltbillings has every right to demand that people play according to his rules. He also has the right to be disapointed when that don't happen.

In a more positive universe, PT, TB and I will all have our eye on the Buddha and our fingers off the send button. Though I have to admit that I thought PT showed remarkable restraint. I'm afraid I am much too blunt for that kind of exchange - old habits die hard.

Again my apologies. I'm off to see where I left the Buddha.

Steve

User avatar
tiltbillings
Posts: 23012
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am

Re: Buddhism and religion

Postby tiltbillings » Mon Jun 08, 2009 4:18 am


User avatar
Prasadachitta
Posts: 974
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 6:52 am
Location: San Francisco (The Mission) Ca USA
Contact:

Re: Buddhism and religion

Postby Prasadachitta » Mon Jun 08, 2009 4:24 am

Hello,

Im gonna shoot from the hip here so please excuse me if anything seems out of whack or lacks any correlation to accepted understandings.

As far as I understand it the word "religion" is like the word "personality". Someone might say "that guy has personality" but very little can be gleaned about that person from such a statement because everybody has a personality. Its true that in common usage such a statement would mean "that guy is flamboyant in an out of ordinary way", but if we are using the term personality in a strictly literal way then it means little to nothing.
.....
Pink Trike,

You seem to be using the term religion in two ways. It sounds like you want to refer to it technically in a literal way as well as figuratively at the same time. I can often understand what people mean when they use the term by paying attention to the context and apparent tone of the statement in which they use it. In this case I am confused. :shrug:
.....
I do consider my practice of Buddhist teachings to be a religious practice generally speaking. I could go through a number of technical reasons which sight dictionary's and such but I wont. Instead I will just say that I am immensely grateful for the clarity, compassion, and perfectly pragmatic message which I understand to be conveyed by these teachings. I feel this gratefulness consistently and often to point of tears. I know my statue of a walking Buddha is just a piece of metal which I bought at a shop but a bow to it with a sense of humble devotion because I LOVE it. I look out into the lexicon I am familiar with and "religious practice" fits as well as anything else I can find.

....

- What does the _concept_ of religion mean to you personally? How does the _idea_ of religion itself make you feel?
I think I have answered this
- How familiar are you with the history and origin of the idea of religion (the concept, not the phenomenon)?
I dont know how to quantify this but more than many and less than some.
- Why do you choose to engage with Buddhism as a religion rather than just as a body of valuable wisdom and practices?
Because it is such a valuable body of wisdom and practices.
- For you personally, what elements of Buddhism need to be viewed through the lens of "religion"?
I dont understand the question.
- Is meditation inherently a religious activity?
no but religious activity is inherently possible within it
- Is lovingkindness inherently a religious activity?
no but religious activity is inherently possible within it
- Is generosity inherently a religious activity?
no but religious activity is inherently possible within it
- Is compassion inherently a religious activity?
no but religious activity is inherently possible within it
- Is death contemplation inherently a religious activity?
no but religious activity is inherently possible within it
- Is a religious perspective necessary to understand and practice sila?
I don't understand the question.
- Is a religious perspective necessary to understand kamma?
I don't understand the question especially since I don't fully understand kamma.
- Is the experience of clarity (both incremental and ultimate) a religious experience?
I would say that at some point in its development "clarity"(an appreciative awairness and understanding of the workings of reality) does become a religious quality.
- Are the various mind-states (or stages) encountered throughout our meditation practice religious experiences?
That depends on either why we are meditating or how we feel about what we encounter.



Take care all...

Gabe
- If you hold a belief in rebirth: Is a religious perspective necessary in order to have a positive rebirth experience upon death of the body?
Last edited by Prasadachitta on Mon Jun 08, 2009 4:31 am, edited 2 times in total.
"Beautifully taught is the Lord's Dhamma, immediately apparent, timeless, of the nature of a personal invitation, progressive, to be attained by the wise, each for himself." Anguttara Nikaya V.332

User avatar
zavk
Posts: 1161
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2009 12:04 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Buddhism and religion

Postby zavk » Mon Jun 08, 2009 4:27 am

Pink: The are many aspects of what we currently understand about religion that I find abhorrent. Yet, I don't quite want to jettison the category of religion altogether. I do have some thoughts about religion and will try to articulate it, but I don't have the time to sort through my thoughts now so I'll reply later (I hope this thread doesn't go down a trajectory that gets it locked.)
With metta,
zavk

User avatar
pink_trike
Posts: 1130
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 7:29 am
Contact:

Re: Buddhism and religion

Postby pink_trike » Mon Jun 08, 2009 4:28 am

Last edited by pink_trike on Mon Jun 08, 2009 8:56 am, edited 7 times in total.
Vision is Mind
Mind is Empty
Emptiness is Clear Light
Clear Light is Union
Union is Great Bliss

- Dawa Gyaltsen

---

Disclaimer: I'm a non-religious practitioner of Theravada, Mahayana/Vajrayana, and Tibetan Bon Dzogchen mind-training.

User avatar
pink_trike
Posts: 1130
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 7:29 am
Contact:

Re: Buddhism and religion

Postby pink_trike » Mon Jun 08, 2009 4:45 am

Last edited by pink_trike on Mon Jun 08, 2009 7:44 am, edited 2 times in total.
Vision is Mind
Mind is Empty
Emptiness is Clear Light
Clear Light is Union
Union is Great Bliss

- Dawa Gyaltsen

---

Disclaimer: I'm a non-religious practitioner of Theravada, Mahayana/Vajrayana, and Tibetan Bon Dzogchen mind-training.

User avatar
Jechbi
Posts: 1268
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 3:38 am
Contact:

Re: Buddhism and religion

Postby Jechbi » Mon Jun 08, 2009 4:56 am


User avatar
Ngawang Drolma.
Posts: 805
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 7:38 pm

Re: Buddhism and religion

Postby Ngawang Drolma. » Mon Jun 08, 2009 6:03 am

Last edited by Ngawang Drolma. on Mon Jun 08, 2009 6:22 am, edited 1 time in total.


User avatar
mikenz66
Posts: 14947
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 7:37 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Buddhism and religion

Postby mikenz66 » Mon Jun 08, 2009 6:19 am


User avatar
retrofuturist
Site Admin
Posts: 17855
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Buddhism and religion

Postby retrofuturist » Mon Jun 08, 2009 6:36 am

Hi Pink, all,

What does the _concept_ of religion mean to you personally?

"Spiritual endeavour, with an end goal in mind." Subsequent responses should be seen through this frame of reference.

- How does the _idea_ of religion itself make you feel?

Religion makes me think of potential, but also waste of potential if that religion isn't closely aligned with spiritual development.

- How familiar are you with the history and origin of the idea of religion (the concept, not the phenomenon)?

Not particularly

- Why do you choose to engage with Buddhism as a religion rather than just as a body of valuable wisdom and practices?

As per my definition above. Religion should exist to serve people, not the other way around.

- For you personally, what elements of Buddhism need to be viewed through the lens of "religion"?

The need is up to the individual.

- Is meditation inherently a religious activity?

No.

- Is lovingkindness inherently a religious activity?

No.

- Is generosity inherently a religious activity?

No.

- Is compassion inherently a religious activity?

No

- Is death contemplation inherently a religious activity?

No

- Is a religious perspective necessary to understand and practice sila?

No, though it would add to it.

- Is a religious perspective necessary to understand kamma?

No, though it would add to it.

- Is the experience of clarity (both incremental and ultimate) a religious experience?

Spiritual, yes. Religious, potentially.

- Are the various mind-states (or stages) encountered throughout our meditation practice religious experiences?

Could be... it depends.

- If you hold a belief in rebirth: Is a religious perspective necessary in order to have a positive rebirth experience upon death of the body?

(I hold this belief and answer) No.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

User avatar
pink_trike
Posts: 1130
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 7:29 am
Contact:

Re: Buddhism and religion

Postby pink_trike » Mon Jun 08, 2009 7:41 am

Vision is Mind
Mind is Empty
Emptiness is Clear Light
Clear Light is Union
Union is Great Bliss

- Dawa Gyaltsen

---

Disclaimer: I'm a non-religious practitioner of Theravada, Mahayana/Vajrayana, and Tibetan Bon Dzogchen mind-training.

User avatar
pink_trike
Posts: 1130
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 7:29 am
Contact:

Re: Buddhism and religion

Postby pink_trike » Mon Jun 08, 2009 8:39 am

Vision is Mind
Mind is Empty
Emptiness is Clear Light
Clear Light is Union
Union is Great Bliss

- Dawa Gyaltsen

---

Disclaimer: I'm a non-religious practitioner of Theravada, Mahayana/Vajrayana, and Tibetan Bon Dzogchen mind-training.

User avatar
pink_trike
Posts: 1130
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 7:29 am
Contact:

Re: Buddhism and religion

Postby pink_trike » Mon Jun 08, 2009 8:42 am

That's all for me today. I'll respond to Jechbi and Drolma's posts tomorrow evening after I've had time to think about them. G'nite all. :zzz:
Vision is Mind
Mind is Empty
Emptiness is Clear Light
Clear Light is Union
Union is Great Bliss

- Dawa Gyaltsen

---

Disclaimer: I'm a non-religious practitioner of Theravada, Mahayana/Vajrayana, and Tibetan Bon Dzogchen mind-training.

User avatar
retrofuturist
Site Admin
Posts: 17855
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Buddhism and religion

Postby retrofuturist » Mon Jun 08, 2009 11:37 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

User avatar
Prasadachitta
Posts: 974
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 6:52 am
Location: San Francisco (The Mission) Ca USA
Contact:

Re: Buddhism and religion

Postby Prasadachitta » Mon Jun 08, 2009 2:03 pm

Last edited by Prasadachitta on Mon Jun 08, 2009 2:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Beautifully taught is the Lord's Dhamma, immediately apparent, timeless, of the nature of a personal invitation, progressive, to be attained by the wise, each for himself." Anguttara Nikaya V.332

User avatar
Ben
Posts: 18442
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:49 am
Location: kanamaluka

Re: Buddhism and religion

Postby Ben » Mon Jun 08, 2009 2:08 pm

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

Hoo
Posts: 189
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 2:24 am
Location: Missouri, USA

Re: Buddhism and religion

Postby Hoo » Mon Jun 08, 2009 3:21 pm


User avatar
kc2dpt
Posts: 957
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 3:48 pm

Re: Buddhism and religion

Postby kc2dpt » Mon Jun 08, 2009 5:49 pm

- Peter


User avatar
David N. Snyder
Site Admin
Posts: 10649
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 4:15 am
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
Contact:

Re: Buddhism and religion

Postby David N. Snyder » Mon Jun 08, 2009 7:17 pm

Image




User avatar
tiltbillings
Posts: 23012
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am

Re: Buddhism and religion

Postby tiltbillings » Mon Jun 08, 2009 10:59 pm



Return to “Connections to Other Paths”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 30 guests

Google Saffron, Theravada Search Engine