A new twist in the 'caffeine as intoxicant?' argument

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A new twist in the 'caffeine as intoxicant?' argument

Postby Ben » Wed Jan 14, 2009 12:04 pm

Hi all

I just read this and given the amount of air-time that the 'is caffeine an intoxicant?' question receives at other forums, I thought you might be interested!

Ladies and Gentlemen, get your reading glasses and form an orderly queue!

Hallucinating? Check the coffee count

January 14, 2009 - 11:53AM


Consuming the caffeine in seven cups of instant coffee a day leaves you more likely to see, hear and smell things that aren't there, UK researchers said.

People who drink at least 330 milligrams of the stimulant a day were three times as likely to have hallucinations as those who consumed less than 10 milligrams a day, Durham University researchers found in a study of 219 college students published today in Personality and Individual Differences.

The study, the first to link caffeine and hallucinations, explored the relationship between high caffeine consumption and an increased release of cortisol, a stress hormone believed to contribute to delusions, lead researcher Simon Jones said. It forms the first step toward examining nutrition as a factor in the occurrence of hallucinations, he said.

You read it here first you delusional coffee drinkers!
(A'hem, excuse my impertinent interjection!...Ben)


``Given the link between food and mood, and particularly between caffeine and the body's response to stress, it seems sensible to examine what a nutritional perspective might add,'' Jones said in a statement.

Researchers used surveys to assess daily caffeine intake and past experience with hallucinations. Cigarette smokers, known to be more sensitive to caffeine, weren't allowed to participate, and volunteers' stress levels and proneness to hallucinatory experiences were taken into account.

Nine of the 22 people in the highest-caffeine group reported hearing disembodied voices, compared with three of the 22 people in the lowest-caffeine group, Jones said. Participants also reported seeing things that weren't there and sensing the presence of dead people.

Bloomberg News

http://business.theage.com.au/business/ ... -7gln.html
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Re: A new twist in the 'caffeine as intoxicant?' argument

Postby Fede » Wed Jan 14, 2009 10:21 pm

Be quiet, and get off my shoulder George....I'm reading......

:rolleye:

(we need that "drinking coffee whilst at the PC" emoticon.....!!)
"Samsara: The human condition's heartbreaking inability to sustain contentment." Elizabeth Gilbert, 'Eat, Pray, Love'.

Simplify: 17 into 1 WILL go: Mindfulness!

Quieta movere magna merces videbatur. (Sallust, c.86-c.35 BC)
Translation: Just to stir things up seemed a good reward in itself. ;)

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Re: A new twist in the 'caffeine as intoxicant?' argument

Postby Ben » Thu Jan 15, 2009 1:31 am

My name is not George!
"One cannot step twice into the same river, nor can one grasp any mortal substance in a stable condition, but it scatters and again gathers; it forms and dissolves, and approaches and departs."

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Re: A new twist in the 'caffeine as intoxicant?' argument

Postby pererin » Thu Jan 15, 2009 1:36 am

[Deleted by poster]
Last edited by pererin on Tue Jan 27, 2009 10:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A new twist in the 'caffeine as intoxicant?' argument

Postby Individual » Thu Jan 15, 2009 1:41 am

I've seen several studies which suggest that there's no observable long-term effect of 1-3 caffeinated beverages a day.
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Re: A new twist in the 'caffeine as intoxicant?' argument

Postby Jechbi » Thu Jan 15, 2009 4:22 am

Maybe i'm just seeing things, but didn't I read somewhere that caffeine is a drug? Baah, it was just a hallucination.

:coffee:
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Re: A new twist in the 'caffeine as intoxicant?' argument

Postby Ben » Thu Jan 15, 2009 4:59 am

Individual wrote:I've seen several studies which suggest that there's no observable long-term effect of 1-3 caffeinated beverages a day.


Hi Individual and all

I think it would be interesting to have a look at the study. Quite often what happens is that a news agency's desire to turn a saleable story from cobling together some bits and pieces from an abstract or press release is often at the expense of the insights and groundbreaking knowledge that the study reveals.
Cheers

Ben
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Re: A new twist in the 'caffeine as intoxicant?' argument

Postby jcsuperstar » Thu Jan 15, 2009 7:18 am

maaaaan i've sat around for hours just drinking coffe and talking with friends, like 8 hours straight, pots and pos of cooffee, and nothing , not one single halucination

i've been ripped off!
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Re: A new twist in the 'caffeine as intoxicant?' argument

Postby Ben » Thu Jan 15, 2009 8:52 am

Hi JC
Are you sure your friends are real?
(I'm joking!)
Ben
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Re: A new twist in the 'caffeine as intoxicant?' argument

Postby Fede » Thu Jan 15, 2009 9:59 am

Actually, a major study into the benefits of eating margarinetook place many years ago, and results showed, through diligent scientific research, that eating margarine was of far more benfit to consumers, than eating butter. Research had taken place over 2 years, and a cross section of society, numbering 5,000 people had been closely monitored.

The research was sponsored by a major manufacturer of - Margarine.

Now there's a surprise.

find the source/sponsor.

Then you'll get your whys and wherefores.
"Samsara: The human condition's heartbreaking inability to sustain contentment." Elizabeth Gilbert, 'Eat, Pray, Love'.

Simplify: 17 into 1 WILL go: Mindfulness!

Quieta movere magna merces videbatur. (Sallust, c.86-c.35 BC)
Translation: Just to stir things up seemed a good reward in itself. ;)

I am sooooo happy - How on earth could I be otherwise?! :D


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Re: A new twist in the 'caffeine as intoxicant?' argument

Postby Placid-pool » Thu Jan 15, 2009 4:20 pm

Depends on the coffee - two tiny cups in a French café can give me the shakes for the rest of the morning. Several gallons of the muck that comes out of automatic machines has no effect on me at all.

And my psychiatrist tells me that my voices have nothing to do with coffee ... they're because I'm mad. Pity, would have been a nice excuse.

And who do you think introduced Fédé to George? Hm?
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Re: A new twist in the 'caffeine as intoxicant?' argument

Postby zamis » Thu Jan 22, 2009 3:59 pm

Fede wrote:Be quiet, and get off my shoulder George....I'm reading......

:rolleye:

(we need that "drinking coffee whilst at the PC" emoticon.....!!)

:rofl:
while i :coffee:

seems some of this would have to do with personal metabolic levels. my grandfather wasn't a caffeine addict by any means- one small cup in the morning- one in the afternoon- and he drank a small cup of espresso at night to help him sleep.
"You're almost at the end of your lease in this burning house and yet you continue latching onto it as your self. It tricks you into feeling fear and love, and when you fall for it, what path will you practice? " Upasika Kee Nanayon

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Re: A new twist in the 'caffeine as intoxicant?' argument

Postby dhammatrophic » Mon Jan 26, 2009 4:59 am

jcsuperstar wrote:maaaaan i've sat around for hours just drinking coffe and talking with friends, like 8 hours straight, pots and pos of cooffee, and nothing , not one single halucination

i've been ripped off!


Are you sure you had 8 hrs worth of talking :quote: to do?

:D

P.S. That first smile should be 2 smiles. 1 of the (err...my left) right hand to go before the quote and the the second of the head and (err...my right) left hand to go after the hand. Ohhhh wait, never mind..... Its just the caffeine talking. :rofl:
-trophic
1. turning, changing, or reacting in a particular way
2. attracted to, having an affinity for, or moving toward a particular thing
3. acting on something specified, or in a particular way
4. relating to a specified kind of nutrition.
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Re: A new twist in the 'caffeine as intoxicant?' argument

Postby Jechbi » Tue Jan 27, 2009 12:11 am

Hi all,

In this thread, I asked this question:
... if a substance existed that could boost any one or all of the mental factors without impeding any of them, would it be good practice to ingest this substance regularly?
And although I drink coffee regularly, it's still not clear to me where exactly to draw the line for the application of the 5th precept when it comes to substances other than alcohol. Maybe the question is irrelevant. Anyone else wonder about this?
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Re: A new twist in the 'caffeine as intoxicant?' argument

Postby appicchato » Wed Jan 28, 2009 8:09 am

You might hallucinate, but maybe you won't lose your marbles... :coffee:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/24/healt ... offee.html
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Re: A new twist in the 'caffeine as intoxicant?' argument

Postby Individual » Thu Jan 29, 2009 12:14 am

Ben wrote:
Individual wrote:I've seen several studies which suggest that there's no observable long-term effect of 1-3 caffeinated beverages a day.


Hi Individual and all

I think it would be interesting to have a look at the study.

Stuff here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caffeine#E ... moderation

http://www.webmd.com/diet/features/pros ... aze?page=2
Moderate coffee consumption -- defined as three or four cups a day, providing 300 or 400 milligrams of caffeine -- carries "little evidence of health risks and some evidence of health benefits," conclude researchers from the Linus Pauling Institute at Oregon State University in Corvalis, writing in Critical Reviews in Food Science and Nutrition in March 2006.

And there's plenty of stuff out there on sites like WebMD, MedicineNet, etc..

I don't think there's hardly any studies that say caffeine is ALWAYS bad, but there's variation on how much would constitute "moderation". Some might say no more than 1 cup of coffee a day. Some might allow for up to 4. As Wikipedia says, it depends on body-weight and tolerance.

With caffeine, I think you can know your limit by practicing mindfulness. If you can drink a certain amount of caffeinated beverages without getting the jitters or a "crash" (sensitivity to light, anxiety, depression, fatigue, headaches, dehydration), then it seems to be okay. People who abuse caffeine regularly can be pretty well-aware that they're abusing it by abstaining from it and then observing how they feel... As for me, I seldolmly drink Coca-Cola for a pick-me-up, but not every day, and not all the time... Drinking carbonated soda every day, period, upsets my stomach, and I don't really like coffee (the occasional cafe mocha, though, is nice too).

I don't think the new energy drinks are good, though... Monster Energy, Red Bull, etc.. I drank those a couple of times when I had to stay away for over 24+ hours. When I finally went to sleep, when I woke up the next day, it felt like I had just taken some kind of serious drugs... sometimes with bad withdrawal, that is, anxiety and depression... There are definitely a lot of caffeine junkies out there who drink caffeine with every meal and it's bizarre.
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Re: A new twist in the 'caffeine as intoxicant?' argument

Postby AdvaitaJ » Sat Jan 31, 2009 1:02 am

I used to do about 6-10 cups a day, built up to it over the years and never had any ill effect or entertaining non-realities. Now, I drink about six cups of half-caf per day and am much better off with no afternoon "crashes". In my youth, though, my wife supplied me with some extra-strength No-Doz for a trip we made once. Each little pill was like a double-espresso of caffeine. I may have taken one or two too many because I completely and irrationally lost my temper over a nit and punched the dashboard in the car. :cookoo:

( It's taken her twenty years to forget about that -- please don't bring it up. ;) )

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