chemical meditation enhancement

[johnny]

caffeine. obviously accepted by most.

what else would be okay without crossing a line?

i fall asleep so badly! caffeine actually works for me usually, but i was wondering what else is there?

[johnny]

soma of the vedas comes too mind. the rishis were experienced meditators and raved about the usefulness of this chemical. although debate rages about what it was. so much that it could have been a stimulant that would work for buddhist meditation, or a hallucinogen that would be very much a precept violation and totally a hindrance too meditative development in the buddhist tradition (but perfect for meeting gods in vedic tradition!).

[marc108]

are you tired and falling asleep during the day or only during meditation?

[johnny]

are you tired and falling asleep during the day or only during meditation?

i have plenty of energy during the day. but if i sit down and get too relaxed i sometimes can doze. but it's in no way abnormal. i don't get drowsy while driving or eating or anything like that. just during inactivity and mental relaxation, so really pretty standard. basically if the mental conditions for sleep are present, i start too drift. i fall asleep almost immediately at night when i lay down in bed and always have.

[tiltbillings]

Meditate standing up or if sitting with your eyes wide open in a brightly lit room.

[johnny]

eyes open in a brightly lit room does not work, thanks though. standing up may, i'll give it a shot. can one enter jhana while standing?

[johnny]

also, what about nicotine? i don't use it, but it is a stimulant, no? does it help keep one awake?

[marc108]

nicotene is physically addictive and carcinogenic, so i wouldn't advise that. any legal chemicals you use to fight sloth and torpor will eventually become ineffective as your body adapts to maintain homeostasis. i think chemicals like caffeine are only useful if you are physically fatigued, which is sounds like you are not. i think it would be useful for you to study up on and explore the hindrance in depth and learn how to deal with it.

[johnny]

nicotene is physically addictive and carcinogenic, so i wouldn't advise that. any legal chemicals you use to fight sloth and torpor will eventually become ineffective as your body adapts to maintain homeostasis. i think chemicals like caffeine are only useful if you are physically fatigued, which is sounds like you are not. i think it would be useful for you to study up on and explore the hindrance in depth and learn how to deal with it.

i use caffeine only for meditation and for nothing else. and then only on my days off when i have time to really get a serious session in, so i don't think i will develop a tolerance. three doses of caffeine a week shouldn't be enough for a tolerance, right?

does nicotine alone cause cancer? i think it's mainly because it is usually ingested through smoking and all the chemicals in the leaves, and the smoke damage too the lungs that are the problem. if someone just used those e cigarettes they would be fine probably, or maybe not, i don't know.

[marc108]

nicotene is physically addictive and carcinogenic, so i wouldn't advise that. any legal chemicals you use to fight sloth and torpor will eventually become ineffective as your body adapts to maintain homeostasis. i think chemicals like caffeine are only useful if you are physically fatigued, which is sounds like you are not. i think it would be useful for you to study up on and explore the hindrance in depth and learn how to deal with it.

i use caffeine only for meditation and for nothing else. and then only on my days off when i have time to really get a serious session in, so i don't think i will develop a tolerance. three doses of caffeine a week shouldn't be enough for a tolerance, right?

does nicotine alone cause cancer? i think it's mainly because it is usually ingested through smoking and all the chemicals in the leaves, and the smoke damage too the lungs that are the problem. if someone just used those e cigarettes they would be fine probably, or maybe not, i don't know.

3 doses of caffeine per week shouldnt be enough to cause physiological dependance.

nicotine, itself, is cancer causing through numerous mechanisms.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicotine#Toxicology

[johnny]

nicotene is physically addictive and carcinogenic, so i wouldn't advise that. any legal chemicals you use to fight sloth and torpor will eventually become ineffective as your body adapts to maintain homeostasis. i think chemicals like caffeine are only useful if you are physically fatigued, which is sounds like you are not. i think it would be useful for you to study up on and explore the hindrance in depth and learn how to deal with it.

i use caffeine only for meditation and for nothing else. and then only on my days off when i have time to really get a serious session in, so i don't think i will develop a tolerance. three doses of caffeine a week shouldn't be enough for a tolerance, right?

does nicotine alone cause cancer? i think it's mainly because it is usually ingested through smoking and all the chemicals in the leaves, and the smoke damage too the lungs that are the problem. if someone just used those e cigarettes they would be fine probably, or maybe not, i don't know.

3 doses of caffeine per week shouldnt be enough to cause physiological dependance.

nicotine, itself, is cancer causing through numerous mechanisms.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicotine#Toxicology

okay thanks. i'll stay away from it then.

[Ben]

Hi Johnny,
You might as well look at your lifestyle. Ensure you are getting enough sleep, eating healthy food and regular exercise. These are 'chemical meditation enhancements' which are routinely overlooked.
I would also look at how acute your sleepiness is during meditation. 'Sloth and torpor' is one of the five mental hindrances that manifests for all meditators. And it will manifest for you despite any lifestyle changes you make. Best to use the strategies as suggested to you above and to read the following work by Nyanaponika Thera.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... el026.html
Wishing you all the best,

Ben

[Aloka]

i fall asleep so badly! caffeine actually works for me usually, but i was wondering what else is there?

Hi johnny,

You'll be less likely to fall asleep if you try meditating outdoors with eyes open ( with gaze slightly downwards towards the nose) ...or else do some walking meditation.

I prefer both of these to meditating indoors.

with kind wishes,

Aloka

[retrofuturist]

Greetings,

what else would be okay without crossing a line?

Guarana, taurine, gingko biloba, ginseng etc.

Metta,
Retro.

[johnny]

Greetings,

what else would be okay without crossing a line?

Guarana, taurine, gingko biloba, ginseng etc.

Metta,
Retro.

thanks! have these worked for you? does ginseng have a lot of bad side effects?

[retrofuturist]

Greetings Johnny,

thanks! have these worked for you? does ginseng have a lot of bad side effects?

From experience, gingko biloba is unqualifiably good. Taurine and guarana are like different forms of caffeine, but not remarkably different. As for ginseng, it's been a while since I've had it, and it predates my interest in meditation.

Either way, they're four things that are "this side of the line" that you could try and see how they work for you.

Metta,
Retro.

[johnny]

Greetings Johnny,

thanks! have these worked for you? does ginseng have a lot of bad side effects?

From experience, gingko biloba is unqualifiably good. Taurine and guarana are like different forms of caffeine, but not remarkably different. As for ginseng, it's been a while since I've had it, and it predates my interest in meditation.

Either way, they're four things that are "this side of the line" that you could try and see how they work for you.

Metta,
Retro.

i will give gingko a go i think! thank you sir!