What are you thinking while meditating?

[pegembara]

Things arises and passes away.

'This is not mine, this is not me, this is not my self.'

[Spiny Norman]

Thinking sucks.

It certainly makes my brain hurt.

[Spiny Norman]

'This is not mine, this is not me, this is not my self.'

Do you mean using this like a mantra, or just as a response to thoughts and feelings arising?

[Spiny Norman]

Discursive thinking in meditation has a rather undeserved poor reputation.

There seem to be many different approaches to meditation.

[dharmagoat]

Discursive thinking in meditation has a rather undeserved poor reputation.

There seem to be many different approaches to meditation.

All emphasise awareness.

[PeDr0]

What about asubha bhavana meditation, I have been told that this is a very important meditation practice, that definately involves thought. As does the metta bhavana.

Good question, it seems to me that everyone thinks they are an expert at meditation but no two people can agree on the correct methods.

[dharmagoat]

... it seems to me that everyone thinks they are an expert at meditation but no two people can agree on the correct methods.

I think there is agreement that methods differ, serve different purposes, yield different effects, but all access the same experience.

A particular method is correct only for its specific purpose.

[mikenz66]

Hi PeDr0,

What about asubha bhavana meditation, I have been told that this is a very important meditation practice, that definately involves thought. As does the metta bhavana.

That's certainly true. Such practices certainly involve thinking and concepts.

Good question, it seems to me that everyone thinks they are an expert at meditation but no two people can agree on the correct methods.

This is partly because there are variety of methods, and the natural thing when one has learned a little is to think that one particular method is the only correct approach and/or all that is required.


Mike

[Spiny Norman]

A particular method is correct only for its specific purpose.

I agree, and it's good to be clear about what particular methods are for.

[Spiny Norman]

But this is absurd; so, of what benefit is this lack of thought, mentioned by so many?

Possibly because insight is non-conceptual and thinking gets in the way?

[bodom]

But this is absurd; so, of what benefit is this lack of thought, mentioned by so many?

Possibly because insight is non-conceptual and thinking gets in the way?

Thinking has gotten a bad rap, but the texts speak of three ways of developing wisdom, one of which is using conceptual thought. There is wisdom obtained from listening to others (suta-maya panna), wisdom obtained from one's own thinking (cinta-maya panna) and wisdom obtained by meditation (bhavana-maya panna).

Digha Nikaya #33: The Sangiti Sutta
http://levityisland.com/buddhadust/www. ... angiti.htm

[reflection]

My main practice is breath awareness, there I practice stilling the thoughts.

But I must say I agree with those who said that contemplation can also be very useful. And of course metta/compassion and the like, practices with a bit of thought (although you can also do them without). But these are greatly aided by stilling thoughts, because unrelated thoughts won't come up as easily. Also, these practices with discursive thoughts are mainly aimed at removing unwholesome thoughts, at least for me.

Because to really understand the mind, in my experience it has to be able to be silent. That's because thoughts disturb the mind. It's not clear, it can't really see itself. The stiller it is, the closer it gets to itself. So it's twofold. The peace is needed for strength, but also for insight.

So it's all interrelated.

I think this video is useful:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqb7ZuMI8HY

[pegembara]

'This is not mine, this is not me, this is not my self.'

Do you mean using this like a mantra, or just as a response to thoughts and feelings arising?

I use it as a way of viewing objects (sounds, sensations, thoughts etc) arising and passing away. To do that you need a certain degree of stillness/samadhi.

[Spiny Norman]

Thinking has gotten a bad rap, but the texts speak of three ways of developing wisdom, one of which is using conceptual thought. There is wisdom obtained from listening to others (suta-maya panna), wisdom obtained from one's own thinking (cinta-maya panna) and wisdom obtained by meditation (bhavana-maya panna).

Do you see these as a progression, ie first hearing, then internalising, then directly experiencing?

[danieLion]

while i'm meditating i think "...is this jhana? which jhana is this...?" you know, stuff like that...



just kidding

Best,
Daniel

[Spiny Norman]

while i'm meditating i think "...is this jhana? which jhana is this...?" you know, stuff like that...
just kidding

Yes, now you come to mention it....

[bodom]

Do you see these as a progression, ie first hearing, then internalising, then directly experiencing?

This according to Goenka:

Sometimes we find in the texts a change in the order of suta-maya panna and cinta-maya panna. At times cinta-maya panna is mentioned first, followed by suta-maya panna and bhavana-maya panna. At times, suta-maya panna is followed by cinta-maya panna and bhavana-maya panna. But in both cases, bhavana-maya panna comes at the end and is of prime importance for the realisation of truth.

The rest of the article going into more detail found in this thread:

Experiential Wisdom: Bhavana-maya panna
viewtopic.php?f=24&t=2170

[Spiny Norman]

Do you see these as a progression, ie first hearing, then internalising, then directly experiencing?

This according to Goenka:

Sometimes we find in the texts a change in the order of suta-maya panna and cinta-maya panna. At times cinta-maya panna is mentioned first, followed by suta-maya panna and bhavana-maya panna. At times, suta-maya panna is followed by cinta-maya panna and bhavana-maya panna. But in both cases, bhavana-maya panna comes at the end and is of prime importance for the realisation of truth.

Yes, I suppose in practice it's a circular activity - reading suttas, then thinking about them, then reading them again.