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Re: Masturbation:A sensitive topic( need more discussions)!

Postby Mr Man » Mon Jul 16, 2012 6:40 am

If you practice "letting go" masturbation will cease.
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Re: Masturbation:A sensitive topic( need more discussions)!

Postby Vlcimba » Mon Jul 16, 2012 6:58 am

Mr Man wrote:If you practice "letting go" masturbation will cease.

:goodpost: i love this post
Would like to hear more from ya '
Form is emptiness. Emptiness is form--- Heart sutra
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Re: Masturbation:A sensitive topic( need more discussions)!

Postby manas » Mon Jul 16, 2012 7:52 am

Hi vicimba,

by practicing the Noble Eightfold Path, one gradually gets more control over one's thoughts, speech and actions. Keeping the five basic precepts for laypersons helps alot too (they are implicit in the Path itself, but we do need to pay particular attention to them as a set).

I followed the link you provided, and thought I had better bring something to your attention:

Question:
I am a male who wishes to kick a long habit of masturbation. My efforts have resulted in cutting down from daily to weekly. Still, the habit continues. I find I am most vulnerable to fall into the act when my I am not fully conscious, i.e. when I am going to sleep or upon waking up.

What would you suggest to prevent my thoughts from becoming lustful and for kicking my undesirable habit altogether.

Answer:

I am going to start off by asking you why is it undesirable? Believe it or not, Buddhism doesn’t condemn masturbation, unless you’re a monk, which I doubt is the case.

The physical aspect of masturbation is harmless. That being said, that may not be the case where karma is concerned. Desire (more specifically in this case, lust), as the Four Noble Truths tell us, leads to suffering. A Buddhist’s main desire is to eliminate suffering.

This is a very debatable topic, and I hope someone will address it in the comment section below, but in my opinion, the real question is what goes on in your mind while you’re doing it. If you can do it without lust, then my Buddhist answer would be to go ahead with it.


Sounds like the person doing the answering had good intentions etc, but they misunderstood something. Regarding the part I bolded (I will be a bit explicit here): if a person is masturbating with their body in arousal, then lust is already present. The pleasurable sensation leads directly to delight in that sensation (ie to desire / lust). He was however correct in that it's not mandatory for a layman to give up masturbation; but it's still a good idea to at least be heading in that direction (which you said is your intention). So my Buddhist answer would not be 'to go ahead with it' but rather to work towards bringing it under increasing control, and, eventually, to complete elimination. But much patience & self-forgiveness will be required along the way, because the overcoming of lust is long-term work for most.

:anjali:
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Re: Masturbation:A sensitive topic( need more discussions)!

Postby Vlcimba » Thu Jul 19, 2012 4:21 am

manas wrote:Hi vicimba,

by practicing the Noble Eightfold Path, one gradually gets more control over one's thoughts, speech and actions. Keeping the five basic precepts for laypersons helps alot too (they are implicit in the Path itself, but we do need to pay particular attention to them as a set).

I followed the link you provided, and thought I had better bring something to your attention:

Question:
I am a male who wishes to kick a long habit of masturbation. My efforts have resulted in cutting down from daily to weekly. Still, the habit continues. I find I am most vulnerable to fall into the act when my I am not fully conscious, i.e. when I am going to sleep or upon waking up.

What would you suggest to prevent my thoughts from becoming lustful and for kicking my undesirable habit altogether.

Answer:

I am going to start off by asking you why is it undesirable? Believe it or not, Buddhism doesn’t condemn masturbation, unless you’re a monk, which I doubt is the case.

The physical aspect of masturbation is harmless. That being said, that may not be the case where karma is concerned. Desire (more specifically in this case, lust), as the Four Noble Truths tell us, leads to suffering. A Buddhist’s main desire is to eliminate suffering.

This is a very debatable topic, and I hope someone will address it in the comment section below, but in my opinion, the real question is what goes on in your mind while you’re doing it. If you can do it without lust, then my Buddhist answer would be to go ahead with it.


Sounds like the person doing the answering had good intentions etc, but they misunderstood something. Regarding the part I bolded (I will be a bit explicit here): if a person is masturbating with their body in arousal, then lust is already present. The pleasurable sensation leads directly to delight in that sensation (ie to desire / lust). He was however correct in that it's not mandatory for a layman to give up masturbation; but it's still a good idea to at least be heading in that direction (which you said is your intention). So my Buddhist answer would not be 'to go ahead with it' but rather to work towards bringing it under increasing control, and, eventually, to complete elimination. But much patience & self-forgiveness will be required along the way, because the overcoming of lust is long-term work for most.

:anjali:

Thanks for your advice and well you basically opened up my mind :smile: I always tauhgt that masturbation without lust is the way to go . But it didnt work. As you said, theres still pleasure behind it. I would really be honoured if you would read and commend on my guide once its out . :anjali: For the tiem beeing , i hope this forum is not dead yet, but :offtopic: would like to thank the moderator from merging this two topics as it provides quite additional and good information for me :tongue:
Form is emptiness. Emptiness is form--- Heart sutra
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The science and karma of masturbation

Postby Vlcimba » Thu Jul 19, 2012 5:00 am

Like the topic states, after doing some research , i found out that people who masturbate are most likely to have 34 percent less chances of getting prostate cancer. Well , heres the irony, an average men has only a 16 percent chance of getting prostate cancer in his life, and thats fairly low. Furthurmore, 98 percent of men who get prostate cancer doesnt die, and quite a number of them recover without treatment at all. Masturbation reduces high sex drive, reducess stress, puts your into sleep easily, and so on.

But heres the question, budhhism states that lust causes suffering, which i believe in too. A normal person, after masturbating, always feels empty and guilt, and this causes other physcological problems, and they are eager to quit after that. This is definately scientifically proven, as our brain finds out that masturbating isnt real sex after ejaculation. There are many ways to reduce prostate cancer, like aerobic excercices, reducing it through diet and so on. And through buddhism we can actually reduce our high sex drive, reduces our stress, and of course food aids and meditation helps sleeping too, So Is masturbating needed in our lives? for me my answer is no , how bout yours? :anjali:

Sources:
http://www.askmen.com/sports/health_400 ... ancer.html
http://www.google.com
Please note that the facts and figures above are all from trustable sources and are sciencetifically proven. The numbers may not be completely accurate but are all near. Statistics may not be a trustable source but it does prove something.
Last edited by Vlcimba on Thu Jul 19, 2012 5:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Porn Free for 90 Days

Postby Vlcimba » Thu Jul 19, 2012 5:01 am

viewtopic.php?f=16&t=13214

Did some research on masturbation and this is what i got
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Re: The science and karma of masturbation

Postby tiltbillings » Thu Jul 19, 2012 5:06 am

Vlcimba wrote:A normal person, after masturbating, always feels empty and guilt, and this causes other physcological problems, and they are eager to quit after that.
A normal person? And you know this how?
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: Porn Free for 90 Days

Postby tiltbillings » Thu Jul 19, 2012 5:15 am

Vlcimba wrote:http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=13214

Did some research on masturbation and this is what i got
I merged your "The science and karma of masturbation" into this thread. We do not need numerous threads covering the same ground.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: The science and karma of masturbation

Postby Vlcimba » Thu Jul 19, 2012 5:18 am

tiltbillings wrote:
Vlcimba wrote:A normal person, after masturbating, always feels empty and guilt, and this causes other physcological problems, and they are eager to quit after that.
A normal person? And you know this how?

Some random sources like yahoo answers and theres actually a website for it . will check that out for you.

Ps: could not find it , but i remember scrolling through it somewhere
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Re: Porn Free for 90 Days

Postby Vlcimba » Thu Jul 19, 2012 5:57 am

Would need more help getting the facts in guys.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patikulamanasikara
This is the meditation way of stopping it
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Re: Porn Free for 90 Days

Postby tiltbillings » Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:04 am

Vlcimba wrote:Would need more help getting the facts in guys.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patikulamanasikara
This is the meditation way of stopping it

Have you read through this thread? I suggest you start here:

viewtopic.php?f=16&t=13168&start=120#p185112

and continue reading.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: Porn Free for 90 Days

Postby Sokehi » Sun Jul 22, 2012 11:21 am

It is good to speak openly about an "issue" that is burdensome to all serious practicioners... especially if they spend a longer time for example on retreats or even more if they ordain and live a celibate life.

It is often discussed how hard it is to overcome the craving for food on such occassions and through my time in thailand there was happily quite an open atmosphere to talk to an elderly monk about the other BIG sensual dukkha, sexual lust, that one experiences in a celibate community.

I appreciate your posting OP and hope a lot will find guidance by it.
Get the wanting out of waiting

What does womanhood matter at all, when the mind is concentrated well, when knowledge flows on steadily as one sees correctly into Dhamma. One to whom it might occur, ‘I am a woman’ or ‘I am a man’ or ‘I’m anything at all’ is fit for Mara to address. – SN 5.2

If they take what's yours, tell yourself that you're making it a gift.
Otherwise there will be no end to the animosity. - Ajahn Fuang Jotiko

https://www.youtube.com/user/Repeataarrr
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Re: Porn Free for 90 Days

Postby manas » Sun Jul 22, 2012 7:50 pm

I have gotten rid of my previous post here. I will just say that overcoming sexual lust is a long-term challenge for most, but one we must eventually face up to if we desire to gain liberation from Samsara.

with metta.
Last edited by manas on Mon Jul 23, 2012 12:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Porn Free for 90 Days

Postby Sokehi » Mon Jul 23, 2012 7:30 pm

I once heard this saying, forgot where.

The definition of puritanism: the fear that someone somewhere could have fun ;)

Sexuality is an essential part of our existence. To overcome lust if you're celibate or to transform it into something more wholesome if you live in a relationship so you don't cheat on your partner... well it's not that easy for some if not most. So it's great to read in this forum about this topic even if it's just that profane porn level. Actually I found the neuroscience aspect in those videos very interesting.
Get the wanting out of waiting

What does womanhood matter at all, when the mind is concentrated well, when knowledge flows on steadily as one sees correctly into Dhamma. One to whom it might occur, ‘I am a woman’ or ‘I am a man’ or ‘I’m anything at all’ is fit for Mara to address. – SN 5.2

If they take what's yours, tell yourself that you're making it a gift.
Otherwise there will be no end to the animosity. - Ajahn Fuang Jotiko

https://www.youtube.com/user/Repeataarrr
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Re: Porn Free for 90 Days

Postby twelph » Wed Jul 25, 2012 8:58 am

I am joining this endeavor, so I might as well put it into writing here. Porn annihilates my mindfulness, so it's been obvious that I need to give it up. I'm also giving up caffeine while I'm at it, as it seems to cause heedlessness in me. :anjali:
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Re: Porn Free for 90 Days

Postby dhamma_newb » Wed Jul 25, 2012 11:45 am

twelph wrote:I am joining this endeavor, so I might as well put it into writing here. Porn annihilates my mindfulness, so it's been obvious that I need to give it up. I'm also giving up caffeine while I'm at it, as it seems to cause heedlessness in me. :anjali:


Hi twelph,

When you struggle come back to this thread as there is lots of good advice given here. I wish you the best and am sending my support.

I saw this article on Cracked.com and thought it was a more lighthearted approach to this serious problem (which is important to have I've come to find).

http://www.cracked.com/article_15725_the-10-steps-to-porn-addiction-where-are-you.html

Another good resource: http://www.reuniting.info/forum/213

Take care!
The watched mind brings happiness.
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I am larger and better than I thought. I did not know I held so much goodness.
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Re: Porn Free for 90 Days

Postby twelph » Thu Jul 26, 2012 4:56 am

Thanks for the link dhamma_newb, interesting article!

Edit: Mana's post responding to me disappeared for some reason.
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Re: Porn Free for 90 Days

Postby Vlcimba » Thu Jul 26, 2012 5:08 am

tiltbillings wrote:
Vlcimba wrote:Would need more help getting the facts in guys.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patikulamanasikara
This is the meditation way of stopping it

Have you read through this thread? I suggest you start here:

viewtopic.php?f=16&t=13168&start=120#p185112

and continue reading.


Ok i havent have much time but i have started writing the guide based on all the good comments that i have read , and i have to say its one of the best written comments that i have scrolled through in a forum ( maybe because its a religious forum and heavily moderated). So well yeah thanks for the recommendation sir . :anjali: :tongue:
Durt_Dawg wrote:Vlcimba, I actually reckon you should drop all deez research on masty prevention for now, instead you should concentrate on ya university and Buddhist practices. It's easy ta fall into da trap of "I gotta to help others!!!!" when you just begain ta learn da Dharma! You are actually using it as an defensive mechanism against ya own insecurities! You'll probably end up with alot more vexations and suffering than you started with.

What would you do when ya friends refute your attempts at teaching them by just laugh dat ya "just can't get any"?

Wisdom comes before rash compassion know wat im sayin?!

So there is no Buddhism support at ya university at all?! I thought if it's a uni, there would be hippies and liberal arty types and there bought be some buddhist group around huh?

I geddit man. But this is something i have always wanted to be involved in.I have people in the uni too to discuss buddhist practices, but they are all basically Newbies when it comes to buddhism, so yeah not much useful discussion going around. Personally, i believe that being a buddhist is not only about buddhist practices, but is how you can aply it to your daily life, how you help people with buddhism , and thats what i plan to do . Anyways, thanks for the advice dude your one of the best forum people i have bumped into dude. And btw, If they dont listen, then its their problem anyways ,as once i heard the monk quote somehting from the buddha, it basically meant that if you attempt to advice someone, it is okay if they dont listen, as you already tried, its not your loss, and it will at least create an impression to them. So, :anjali: :jumping: If you dont mind, can i just point out something: I feel that buddhism holds a very simple concept, and that is living the best out of life, without doing any bad deeds, and thats what Buddha has been trying to tell us . I may be wrong , but thats certainly the simple way of looking at it for me
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Re: Porn Free for 90 Days

Postby twelph » Tue Jul 31, 2012 8:13 am

It's interesting to see how my dream last night was much more intense and vivid in a sexual nature. The dream stayed with me the entire day, and my awareness strengthened considerably each time that I noticed my mind thinking about it. An aspect that was quite difficult to cope with was the fact that every time my awareness strengthened in relation to the dream, the mental images in my head also became much more pronounced. The next time it happens I am going to attempt broadening my awareness to include a neutral object at the same time, as I feel like too much of my concentration is focused upon recollection. As I write this, getting these thoughts organized seems to help considerably, though I still have to be truthful in admitting that it's rather difficult.

I'm at about ten days now, as I had started a few days before I posted to this thread. Something else bothering me, is that in making this goal I feel like I have become aware of the strong aversion I have to my desire for porn. It's hard shifting my thoughts from the aversion to my porn habits, to being able to see the benefits and joy of renunciation. Going to keep at it.
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Re: Porn Free for 90 Days

Postby tiltbillings » Tue Jul 31, 2012 8:50 am

twelph wrote:I'm at about ten days now, as I had started a few days before I posted to this thread. Something else bothering me, is that in making this goal I feel like I have become aware of the strong aversion I have to my desire for porn. It's hard shifting my thoughts from the aversion to my porn habits, to being able to see the benefits and joy of renunciation. Going to keep at it.
Seeing the aversion is good thing. Just take it easy. Be kind with yourself. Outside of becoming ariya, you are not going to get rid of sexual feelings. The question becomes what do you do with them, what kind of relationship will you have with them. Even though sexual feelings are naught more than a natural part of being a biological being, you can make them an enemy and hate yourself for having them and all the confliction that goes with that.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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