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Satipatana vs Anapanasati - Dhamma Wheel

Satipatana vs Anapanasati

General discussion of issues related to Theravada Meditation, e.g. meditation postures, developing a regular sitting practice, skillfully relating to difficulties and hindrances, etc.
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drifting cloud
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Satipatana vs Anapanasati

Postby drifting cloud » Thu Aug 02, 2012 12:40 am

Are these basically the same practice? Is vipassana as it is commonly taught today considered satipatanna or anapanasati or both (or does this depend on the precise style, i.e. Mahasi noting vs Goenka etc?)

I have heard some people say that anapanasati is basically a samatha only practice and only satipatanna is vipassana (with the implications that anapanasati might be good for calming thing and developing concentration, but that satipatanna is the "real deal"). On the other hand Buddhadhasa Bhikku's is based off the Anapanasati Sutta, and it seems to go beyond samatha practice.

In looking at the Satipatanna Sutta and the Anapanasati Sutta, the Satipatanna Sutta is clearly more detailed in its instructions, but the practice of Anapanasati also is founded on the 'Four Frames of Reference'.

Is there an established answer to this question within the Theravada, or is this going to be looked at differently by different schools?

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Re: Satipatana vs Anapanasati

Postby David2 » Thu Aug 02, 2012 3:10 am

Hello drifting cloud,

in the satipatthana sutta there are four satipatthanas - foundations of mindfulness - mentioned:

1. Body
2. Feelings
3. Mind
4. Mind-Objects

Each satipatthana provides various components for contemplation.

Anapanasati - mindfulness of breathing - is mentioned in the satipatthana sutta as first method of contemplating the first satipatthana - the body.

The reason why anapanasati is mentioned first is probably, that of all contemplation objects, the breathing has the most tranquilizing effect.

It's not true that anapanasati is a Samatha practice only - it just has more emphasis on the concentration part. In the end, every practice of the satipatthana sutta can lead to enlightenment, when correctly practiced.
The reason why the Buddha gave so many possible contemplation objects, is that for different people in different situations some methods lead quicker to enlightenment than others.

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Re: Satipatana vs Anapanasati

Postby Spiny Norman » Thu Aug 02, 2012 8:13 am

"My religion is very simple - my religion is ice-cream."
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daverupa
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Re: Satipatana vs Anapanasati

Postby daverupa » Thu Aug 02, 2012 3:36 pm

I see them both as being jhana practice, which follows after dealing with the hindrances. Satipatthana is a framework for knowing & seeing; anapanasati is a way of using satipatthana to develop the seven factors of enlightenment. As they are not sequential in satipatthana, so they cannot be sequential in anapanasati; the common editorial addition of the numbers 1-16 in anapanasati suttas helps perpetuate a misunderstanding, it seems to me.

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Re: Satipatana vs Anapanasati

Postby Spiny Norman » Fri Aug 03, 2012 8:42 am

"My religion is very simple - my religion is ice-cream."
Dairy Lama

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Re: Satipatana vs Anapanasati

Postby daverupa » Fri Aug 03, 2012 10:38 am


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Re: Satipatana vs Anapanasati

Postby Spiny Norman » Fri Aug 03, 2012 2:33 pm

"My religion is very simple - my religion is ice-cream."
Dairy Lama

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Re: Satipatana vs Anapanasati

Postby daverupa » Fri Aug 03, 2012 3:59 pm


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Re: Satipatana vs Anapanasati

Postby mikenz66 » Fri Aug 03, 2012 9:21 pm


twelph
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Re: Satipatana vs Anapanasati

Postby twelph » Fri Aug 03, 2012 10:08 pm


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daverupa
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Re: Satipatana vs Anapanasati

Postby daverupa » Fri Aug 03, 2012 11:48 pm


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Re: Satipatana vs Anapanasati

Postby mikenz66 » Fri Aug 03, 2012 11:52 pm

Hi Dave,

I think you're missing my point. As U Pandita and Ajahn Buddhadasa say, there are various ways these things can be used. Sticking slavishly to lists (either in suttas or commentaries) is not of particular importance. These are hints to be applied experientially.

:anjali:
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Re: Satipatana vs Anapanasati

Postby daverupa » Sat Aug 04, 2012 12:24 am


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Re: Satipatana vs Anapanasati

Postby mikenz66 » Sat Aug 04, 2012 1:59 am

Hi Dave,

I'm not really sure what we disagree about. Clearly there are many different interpretations of these suttas, so in some sense noone ever completely agrees with anyone else.

However, taking the hints about practice from those suttas and developing them into one's actual practice sounds perfectly fine to me, and exactly what one should be doing with the Dhamma.

:anjali:
Mike

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drifting cloud
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Re: Satipatana vs Anapanasati

Postby drifting cloud » Sat Aug 04, 2012 2:21 am


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Re: Satipatana vs Anapanasati

Postby pegembara » Sat Aug 04, 2012 11:45 am

And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.

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Re: Satipatana vs Anapanasati

Postby Spiny Norman » Sat Aug 04, 2012 1:03 pm

"My religion is very simple - my religion is ice-cream."
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Re: Satipatana vs Anapanasati

Postby Zom » Sat Aug 04, 2012 5:55 pm

Anapanasati is the method to develop all four Satipatthanas to the maximum possible level.

Read SN 54.10 8-)

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Re: Satipatana vs Anapanasati

Postby daverupa » Sat Aug 04, 2012 6:02 pm


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Re: Satipatana vs Anapanasati

Postby Spiny Norman » Sun Aug 05, 2012 12:23 pm

"My religion is very simple - my religion is ice-cream."
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