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Entering Jhana Without Single Object Absorption - Page 3 - Dhamma Wheel

Entering Jhana Without Single Object Absorption

The cultivation of calm or tranquility and the development of concentration
pegembara
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Re: Entering Jhana Without Single Object Absorption

Postby pegembara » Mon Aug 06, 2012 5:38 am

Ekaggata (One -Pointedness) is the one common factor through all the 4 jhanas states. Without fixing the mind one an object, the mind cannot settle (enter samadhi). The mind that is not settled (?monkey mind) cannot be said to be freed from the hindrances especially restlessness. What is debatable is whether full absorption is necessary for jhana.
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.

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Cittasanto
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Re: Entering Jhana Without Single Object Absorption

Postby Cittasanto » Mon Aug 06, 2012 6:30 am



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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Cittasanto
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Re: Entering Jhana Without Single Object Absorption

Postby Cittasanto » Mon Aug 06, 2012 6:40 am



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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reflection
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Re: Entering Jhana Without Single Object Absorption

Postby reflection » Mon Aug 06, 2012 8:08 am

Jhana is absorption. So to enter jhana without absorption is impossible. And absorption naturally is in one object, in the case of jhana the mind. So it's also not reasonably possible to enter it while walking.

With metta, :anjali:
Reflection

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tiltbillings
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Re: Entering Jhana Without Single Object Absorption

Postby tiltbillings » Mon Aug 06, 2012 8:43 am


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reflection
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Re: Entering Jhana Without Single Object Absorption

Postby reflection » Mon Aug 06, 2012 9:19 am


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daverupa
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Re: Entering Jhana Without Single Object Absorption

Postby daverupa » Mon Aug 06, 2012 11:32 am


santa100
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Re: Entering Jhana Without Single Object Absorption

Postby santa100 » Mon Aug 06, 2012 3:40 pm

twelph wrote:
"When the second paragraph says "dwelling by means of this dwelling" it seems to be referring to the prior paragraph, in which it is stated he is attending to the " imperturbable", which I have been lead to believe is the 4th Jhana"

While it seems like so, it's actually not. If you go on to the subsequent paragraphs, they all start with that phrase "dwelling by means of this dwelling", for example:

"while he is dwelling by means of this dwelling, his mind inclines to speaking, he resolves that 'I will not engage in talk that is base, vulgar, common, ignoble, unbeneficial, that does not lead to disenchantment, dispassion, cessation, calm, direct knowledge, self-awakening, or Unbinding — i.e., talk about kings, robbers, & ministers of state; armies, alarms, & battles; food & drink; clothing, furniture, garlands, & scents; relatives; vehicles; villages, towns, cities, the countryside; women & heroes; the gossip of the street & the well; tales of the dead; tales of diversity, the creation of the world & of the sea; talk of whether things exist or not.' In this way he is alert there."

So if the monk was in the 4th jhana while walking, he must've also been in one while speaking!! (which is definitely impossible..)

twelph
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Re: Entering Jhana Without Single Object Absorption

Postby twelph » Mon Aug 06, 2012 5:08 pm


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marc108
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Re: Entering Jhana Without Single Object Absorption

Postby marc108 » Mon Aug 06, 2012 5:46 pm

"It's easy for us to connect with what's wrong with us... and not so easy to feel into, or to allow us, to connect with what's right and what's good in us."

santa100
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Re: Entering Jhana Without Single Object Absorption

Postby santa100 » Mon Aug 06, 2012 6:51 pm


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marc108
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Re: Entering Jhana Without Single Object Absorption

Postby marc108 » Mon Aug 06, 2012 7:20 pm

"It's easy for us to connect with what's wrong with us... and not so easy to feel into, or to allow us, to connect with what's right and what's good in us."

santa100
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Re: Entering Jhana Without Single Object Absorption

Postby santa100 » Mon Aug 06, 2012 7:56 pm

marc108 wrote:
"The word being used in the translation of Ajahn Chahs Thai is one-pointedness but what he is alluding to is not actual one-pointed absorbtion. one-pointedness, in and of itself and not as a translation of ekaggata, does not allow for thinking."

One needs to investigate whether this "thinking" disturbs the mind or not. If it did, it'd definitely not be the vitakka of the 1st jhana. Whether it's "one-pointedness" or "unification on a foundation of tranquility", Ajhan Chah make it clear that for the first jhana: "There is vitakka, but it does not disturb the mind" and that leads to: "Together they(the factors) are called a state of samadhi. They are not everyday states of mind, they are factors of absorption. There are these five characteristics, but they do not disturb the basic tranquillity".

Micheal Kush
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Re: Entering Jhana Without Single Object Absorption

Postby Micheal Kush » Mon Aug 06, 2012 8:00 pm


Nyana
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Re: Entering Jhana Without Single Object Absorption

Postby Nyana » Mon Aug 06, 2012 8:41 pm


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Cittasanto
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Re: Entering Jhana Without Single Object Absorption

Postby Cittasanto » Tue Aug 07, 2012 6:39 am



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.


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