kirk5a wrote: tiltbillings wrote:So, when an arahant is seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting, touching and cognizing, the arahant is suffering, according to you?
I'm not an arahant, so I don't have any better explanation than the Arrow Sutta.
Is the The Arrow Sutta describing the arahant or the way to becoming awakened? Either the arahant is free of dukkha grounded in craving, or not. If not, then the FNT are a sham. Being an arahant means that seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting, touching and cognizing are not based in craving; they are not, for the arahant, suffering grounded in craving.
kirk5a wrote:When you were talking about "cognitions" before, it was in the context of "what rises and falls" - "experiencing the rising and falling of seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting, touching and cognizing." So I don't see how this quote uses "asankhata" as you do, like this:
the congitions that rise and fall are no longer conditioned – asankhata – for the arahant by greed, hatred, and delusion:
Since we are talking about arahants, the destruction of greed, hatred and delusion does not "rise and fall." You used asankhata to describe what rises and falls - that it is "not conditioned by" greed, hatred, and delusion. I don't see how that quote is using "asankhata" as "not conditioned by."
You are missing the point. What rises and falls is no longer conditioned by -- what rises and falls is free of the conditioning of -- greed, hatred, and delusion. Greed, hatred, and delusion, having been destroyed, are no longer there to condition our cognitions.
kirk5a wrote:That passage is translated by Bhikkhu Bodhi as follows:
SN 43 wrote:And what, bhikkhus, is the unconditioned? The destruction of lust, the destruction of hatred, the destruction of delusion: this is called the unconditioned.
Again, not a very good translation in that we are stuck with asking what is "the unconditioned." What is "unconditioned" are our cognitions. We can drop the "the."
Let me ask you: as unawakened individuals our cognitions are not conditioned by wanting, a craving for, a grasping after, what reinforces a sense of self; our cognitions are not conditioned by aversion to, a hatred of, that which threatens our sense of self; our cognitions are not conditioned by the fundamental sense that we are at our core an important, lasting agent-self?
Sorry, don't understand the grammar. What is the question here?
Let me make it a bit easier, but before I do, let us make it clear that what I said was in response to your request: “
Please show me where "asankhata" refers to cognitions.”
Let me ask you: as unawakened individuals are our cognitions
conditioned by wanting, a craving for, a grasping after, what reinforces a sense of self?
Are our cognitions
conditioned by aversion to, a hatred of, that which threatens our sense of self?
Are our cognitions
conditioned by the fundamental sense that we are at our core an important, lasting agent-self?
Now, are the arahant’s cognitions characterized by being conditioned by greed, hatred, and delusion? I would say that they are unconditioned by – free of the conditioning of – greed, hatred and delusion, given that greed, hatred, and delusion have been destroyed. Otherwise what would be the point of awakening? And don’t forget the arahant is clearly defined by the destruction of greed, hatred, and delusion.