Buddhist cults?

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
curious_buddhist
Posts: 11
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 6:13 am

Buddhist cults?

Post by curious_buddhist »

Hi everyone

I'm new to this forum, but don't know where else I can turn to regarding this issue I want to raise. Does anybody here have experience of the Pathgate Institute of Buddhist Studies in Newcastle, UK?

I ask because I took refuge with the teacher there, Lama Dondrup Dorje, several years ago, and only recently have begun coming across many suggestions and reports that the Institute is not genuine, that Rinpoche hasn't been ordained, that students are brainwashed, even that our root guru Penor Rinpoche of the Nyingma tradition had once labelled Lama Dondrup as a liar. Saying these things come quite difficult to me as I've been taught to show utmost respect and faith in my teacher, and to not show disrespect to my tradition, but as Buddha taught to investigate fully our experience and especially the qualifications of our Dhamma teachers, I feel I need to raise this and see from others with more experience in practicing Dhamma whether my concerns are valid. Certain things I've experienced have left me feeling unsettled about the whole deal and seem to contradict my understanding of Buddhism, which have included:

- being verbally abused and told that we know absolutely nothing in comparison to the teacher (in the exact words, you know 0.00000000001% of what I know) - it seems all the students believe being yelled at and put down is good for them, it cuts away their egos
- everything we've ever done in life is wrong
- that we shouldn't read any books on Dhamma because whoever wrote them doesn't know what they're talking about, and that even when we listen to his verbal teachings we have no clue what he is talking about
- that we should be compassionate toward but avoid any meaningful relationship with anyone who hasn't taken refuge, including our friends and family
- I've even been out drinking with Lama Dondrup, which I thought was to relax my 'fixation' on abstaining from alcohol
- I've been made to feel guilty and ashamed to tell my partner my feelings toward them because that's 'attachment' and that my love isn't real

My biggest concern in all of this is my partner. She has paid over $10,000 to go to a two month summer retreat there. In the time she's gotten more and more involved, I've seen her gradually cut off all her old friends, she's begun to treat her family very badly and distance herself from them, believes she doesn't have to work anymore and that the universe will provide all she needs, and that she has to give up everything she once loved because, to begin with, all her goals and wishes were 'wrong in the first place'.

So please, any feedback or advice on what I've raised will be really appreciated.

Thank you
Lord Buddha: Sariputta, do you believe this teaching
Sariputta: No, I don't yet believe it
Lord Buddha: Good, good, Sariputta. A wise person doesn't readily believe, he should consider first before believing
User avatar
Dan74
Posts: 4528
Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2009 11:12 pm
Location: Switzerland

Re: Buddhist cults?

Post by Dan74 »

Since this is supposed to be a Vajrayana (Tibetan) lineage, you'd find many more knowledgeable people over at dharmawheel.net

Good luck!!!
_/|\_
User avatar
Cittasanto
Posts: 6646
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:31 pm
Location: Ellan Vannin
Contact:

Re: Buddhist cults?

Post by Cittasanto »

Hi curious_buddhist
You may wish to ask this question on a site dedicated to the Mahayana & Vajrayana
Try our sister site http://www.dharmawheel.net/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I do not know of any organisations in your area you can turn to for information but you may want to speak to another group or a larger group this teacher is associated with.
Last edited by Cittasanto on Mon Aug 06, 2012 6:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.

He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
curious_buddhist
Posts: 11
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 6:13 am

Re: Buddhist cults?

Post by curious_buddhist »

Thank you. I've just posted it at dharmawheel...
Lord Buddha: Sariputta, do you believe this teaching
Sariputta: No, I don't yet believe it
Lord Buddha: Good, good, Sariputta. A wise person doesn't readily believe, he should consider first before believing
User avatar
Ben
Posts: 18438
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:49 am
Location: kanamaluka

Re: Buddhist cults?

Post by Ben »

Good luck with all of that.
If what you say is true, it appears to be classic cultist behaviour.
Best to take Dan and Cittasanto's advice and seek advice and support from the wider Vajrayana community.
kind regards,

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR

e: [email protected]..
Mawkish1983
Posts: 1285
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 9:46 am
Location: Essex, UK

Re: Buddhist cults?

Post by Mawkish1983 »

A retreat in the UK was paid for in dollars?
User avatar
Bhikkhu Pesala
Posts: 4644
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2009 8:17 pm

Re: Buddhist cults?

Post by Bhikkhu Pesala »

Retreat costs shouldn't be more than about £30 a day, so for a two month retreat (60 days), a donation of £1,800 should be adequate. I don't know the exchange rate, but that's surely less than $3,000, so £10,000 is extortionate.
BlogPāli FontsIn This Very LifeBuddhist ChroniclesSoftware (Upasampadā: 24th June, 1979)
User avatar
Alobha
Posts: 565
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2011 8:27 pm
Location: Germany

Re: Buddhist cults?

Post by Alobha »

Oh. It's this Dondrup Dorje? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJr2BdUTYkU" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Your concerns are very, very valid.
User avatar
LonesomeYogurt
Posts: 900
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:24 pm
Location: America

Re: Buddhist cults?

Post by LonesomeYogurt »

I would highly, highly recommend that you avoid any teacher who acts in the way described, or charges more than the bare minimum (or better, not at all) for retreats. Please inquire more deeply in the sister forum, but as for a simple common-sense approach, I would absolutely say that this is not healthy or venerable behavior.
Gain and loss, status and disgrace,
censure and praise, pleasure and pain:
these conditions among human beings are inconstant,
impermanent, subject to change.

Knowing this, the wise person, mindful,
ponders these changing conditions.
Desirable things don’t charm the mind,
undesirable ones bring no resistance.

His welcoming and rebelling are scattered,
gone to their end,
do not exist.
- Lokavipatti Sutta

Stuff I write about things.
User avatar
tiltbillings
Posts: 23046
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am

Re: Buddhist cults?

Post by tiltbillings »

Alobha wrote:Oh. It's this Dondrup Dorje? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJr2BdUTYkU" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Your concerns are very, very valid.
Cut from the same cloth:

>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
User avatar
Cittasanto
Posts: 6646
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:31 pm
Location: Ellan Vannin
Contact:

Re: Buddhist cults?

Post by Cittasanto »

Alobha wrote:Oh. It's this Dondrup Dorje? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJr2BdUTYkU" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Your concerns are very, very valid.
wasn't there a similarly silly video a while ago?
one of the men in that video is jumping and looking like one in that one
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.

He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
User avatar
Durt_Dawg
Posts: 37
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2012 3:43 am

Re: Buddhist cults?

Post by Durt_Dawg »

In the Dharma Ending Age, fake and and evil teachers will be as numerous as sands in the Ganges River! :cry:
Lets b fwendssss!!!!
santa100
Posts: 6799
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2011 10:55 pm

Re: Buddhist cults?

Post by santa100 »

More videos about this Dr. Yeung (he definitely wasn't a Lama back in 1992 as in one of the videos)..

http://www.infiniteunknown.net/2011/07/ ... strations/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
curious_buddhist
Posts: 11
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 6:13 am

Re: Buddhist cults?

Post by curious_buddhist »

Thanks again for so many responses. I've gone to the Palyul Nyingma international website and there's absolutely no reference to this institute on their authorised centres page. I've sent them an email requesting clarification on whether this centre has been directly authorised by HH Penor Rinpoche, the deceased head of the Nyingma tradition.

It's funny but the Pathhgate website says that it is a member of the Palyul International Sangha, yet all the links on their website to the international sangha and regional centres go to sites that have been setup by Pathgate themselves, not to the Palyul Nyingma sites operated by HH Penor Rinpoche's foundation and his authorised teachers.

The charge was 495 pounds per week, which equated to about $1000. I've been told this is for about 4 hours of teaching a day. This is in stark contrast to the authorised Palyul Centre UK's charges (suggested donation) of 5 - 10 pounds for their hour and a half long dhamma talks. The 495 pounds does not include accommodation.

http://www.pathgate.org/pi_Summer_Retreat2012_03.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I don't know, the more I read objectively into this the more my concerns grow.
Lord Buddha: Sariputta, do you believe this teaching
Sariputta: No, I don't yet believe it
Lord Buddha: Good, good, Sariputta. A wise person doesn't readily believe, he should consider first before believing
User avatar
LonesomeYogurt
Posts: 900
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:24 pm
Location: America

Re: Buddhist cults?

Post by LonesomeYogurt »

curious_buddhist wrote:Thanks again for so many responses. I've gone to the Palyul Nyingma international website and there's absolutely no reference to this institute on their authorised centres page. I've sent them an email requesting clarification on whether this centre has been directly authorised by HH Penor Rinpoche, the deceased head of the Nyingma tradition.

It's funny but the Pathhgate website says that it is a member of the Palyul International Sangha, yet all the links on their website to the international sangha and regional centres go to sites that have been setup by Pathgate themselves, not to the Palyul Nyingma sites operated by HH Penor Rinpoche's foundation and his authorised teachers.

The charge was 495 pounds per week, which equated to about $1000. I've been told this is for about 4 hours of teaching a day. This is in stark contrast to the authorised Palyul Centre UK's charges (suggested donation) of 5 - 10 pounds for their hour and a half long dhamma talks. The 495 pounds does not include accommodation.

http://www.pathgate.org/pi_Summer_Retreat2012_03.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I don't know, the more I read objectively into this the more my concerns grow.
You're right to be concerned. Although I have deep respect for the Tibetan tradition, the guru/student relationship that it emphasizes can oftentimes lead to abuse amongst those who do not critically examine their teachers. Please do not involve yourself with such activities and, if you worry about your partner, do your best to convince her of the wrongdoing you see.
Gain and loss, status and disgrace,
censure and praise, pleasure and pain:
these conditions among human beings are inconstant,
impermanent, subject to change.

Knowing this, the wise person, mindful,
ponders these changing conditions.
Desirable things don’t charm the mind,
undesirable ones bring no resistance.

His welcoming and rebelling are scattered,
gone to their end,
do not exist.
- Lokavipatti Sutta

Stuff I write about things.
Post Reply