porpoise wrote:But the Arrow Sutta makes a clear distinction between physical pain ( 1st arrow ) and mental pain ( 2nd arrow ), and you seem just to be talking about the 2nd arrow here, mental pain. But the simile of being pierced by arrows or darts makes it clear that both these experiences are painful.
Physical pain is also defined by this mind.
If your mind say this physical sensation as pain, then it becomes pain, unique to your mindset.
If your mind say this physical sensation as joy, then it becomes joy, unique to your mindset.
Just about physical sensation you get after exercise.
For some, who don't like that sensation, it is pain.
For others, who like that sensation, it is joy.
Another example is you eat hot and spicy chilly.
For some, the burning sensation is pain.
FOr others, that burning sensation is joy.
So, what is the actual value for that burning sensation? Is it joy or pain?
We should learn to eliminate the layer of concept on the sensation. When you do that, you will then know this is just sensation that can be named as any thing you want.
The actual value is up to you to define.
In buddhist concept, this is said that there is nothing intrinsic in anything you think.
Because if there is something intrinsic, no one will have different idea. The intrinsic thing will make all people in the whole 6 level of samsara have exactly same opinion like what you have.
If the burning sensation of eating chilly is joy and if that burning sensation has an intrinsic value, then the whole world will have same opinion that is joy. Even you give a chilli to your dog, you dog must be in joy. But, is there such thing?
Is headache a pain?
Is backache a pain?
They are just sensation that you label as pain.
In reality, it is just sensation. Nothing more, nothing less.
When you do a meditation, your leg can be extremely painful. But, when you your wisdom of "this is not mine" is also extremely strong, that painful sensation will just be sensation. Nothing more, nothing less.
You are talking about intrinsic pain and you think there is such thing. So, you may need to think about it again.
If there is such thing called intrinsic, why these people can see the same event like this, and those people see that event like that?
Since there is something intrinsic, all people must think the same think for the same event. But, why in reality it doesn't happen?
Is there such thing called intrinsic?
Regarding this arrow sutta. You need to ask this question:
For human who still have dualistic mind, of course there is a physical and mental pain.
But, if that human doesn't have dualistic mind, if that human can see "this is not mine", is it still correct to get the conclusion that there is also a physical and mental pain for these special beings?