Lotus Position

General discussion of issues related to Theravada Meditation, e.g. meditation postures, developing a regular sitting practice, skillfully relating to difficulties and hindrances, etc.
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LonesomeYogurt
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Lotus Position

Post by LonesomeYogurt »

I've recently been trying to get into the lotus position, and things are going well. My knees or hips don't seem to hurt at all.

Two problems have, however, come up. I'm bad at describing so helpful image time: Image

Obviously not me.

In spot number 1, I feel a really painful pressure on my thigh's skin from the foot being pressed down into it by the crossing leg. It feels like it's scraping my skin together and the friction is very painful. Is there a reason I have so much pressure placed on that foot, and can I possibly alleviate it by doing something with my hips or knees?

The second problem is that my foot labeled 2 can get fairly deep into my hip region but it will slide down if I completely relax. Am I supposed to keep a light tension on it to make it stay in place, or am I doing something wrong? I might take a picture of my actual posture to explain - I'll try and cut my crotch out from the shot for decency's sake!

Thanks for any advice on the problems I'm having. Any general helpful tips as well would be welcome. :anjali:
Gain and loss, status and disgrace,
censure and praise, pleasure and pain:
these conditions among human beings are inconstant,
impermanent, subject to change.

Knowing this, the wise person, mindful,
ponders these changing conditions.
Desirable things don’t charm the mind,
undesirable ones bring no resistance.

His welcoming and rebelling are scattered,
gone to their end,
do not exist.
- Lokavipatti Sutta

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manas
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Re: Lotus Position

Post by manas »

Hi LonesomeY,

I wish you well with the endeavour. I use half-lotus and find it comfortable, and conducive enough for samadhi cultivation. But with my knee issues, full-lotus sustained over a few hours could leave me crippled. I still try to ease in to it from time to time, but my body tells me to stop at once.

I just wanted to advise you to get some guidance from a properly trained yoga instructor, to ensure that you are taking proper care of your knees. You only get one set per lifetime, take care!

manas :anjali:
To the Buddha-refuge i go; to the Dhamma-refuge i go; to the Sangha-refuge i go.
daverupa
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Re: Lotus Position

Post by daverupa »

Get hands-on advice or roll the dice with respect to your knees.

:heart:
  • "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.

- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
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Goofaholix
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Re: Lotus Position

Post by Goofaholix »

The question I'd ask is why bother, parallel posture is perfectly fine and more manageable for long retreats.

For spot number 1 it sounds much like my experience, which is I guess why few of us perfect the posture, other than keeping up the stretching exersizes I'm not sure what the remedy is.

For spot 2 this was also my experience, it's because you are wearing trousers wheras lotus position was designed by people who wear sarongs. If you sit wearing a sarong then it's skin on skin and the foot locks into place, after a while though it will start to feel like spot 1.
Pronouns (no self / not self)
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LonesomeYogurt
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Re: Lotus Position

Post by LonesomeYogurt »

I only want to try it out because I have the weakest back in the world and even half-lotus won't keep me from slouching. The little bit of full lotus I can manage has totally felt great so I want to explore it at least a little. Thanks for teh suggestions!
Gain and loss, status and disgrace,
censure and praise, pleasure and pain:
these conditions among human beings are inconstant,
impermanent, subject to change.

Knowing this, the wise person, mindful,
ponders these changing conditions.
Desirable things don’t charm the mind,
undesirable ones bring no resistance.

His welcoming and rebelling are scattered,
gone to their end,
do not exist.
- Lokavipatti Sutta

Stuff I write about things.
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tiltbillings
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Re: Lotus Position

Post by tiltbillings »

LonesomeYogurt wrote:I only want to try it out because I have the weakest back in the world and even half-lotus won't keep me from slouching. The little bit of full lotus I can manage has totally felt great so I want to explore it at least a little. Thanks for teh suggestions!
You might want to try sitting on a very small cushion to get you butt up in a few inches (trial and error to figure what works best), but before that, you may want to do stretching before you assume the posture, and before that you might want to soak yourself in a hot bath for awhile to loosen things ups. The pressure you are feeling is because you are still not loose enough to effectively assume the posture.


This might help:

http://www.yoganatomy.com/2011/07/simpl ... ure-video/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

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Sylvester
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Re: Lotus Position

Post by Sylvester »

I find the Burmese posture/tailor posture most comfortable.

The early texts only recommend nisīdati pallaṅkaṃ (to sit cross-legged) but it does not prescribe how the pallaṅka should be executed.
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Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta
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Re: Lotus Position

Post by Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta »

A lay-teacher from The-In-Gu lineage.

I'm not much of a fan of this teacher, yet.

I just want to share regarding his full lotus pose.

On first glance at the video, I thought the teacher gave the whole talk in one lotus pose over 1 hr 10 mins, and so, I wanted to share this on this thread.

However, after giving a closer look into the video for the posture, he broke the posture only once, imo, around 39:45 on Facebook video below probably just to show how he inadvertently found out, during a sitting, that he became able to do it hands-free.

In his talk, he talked about a nun who sit in full-lotus "unmoved", let alone changing posture, for more than 27 hours.

From what I have gathered, he is of the opinion that even tho' sitting long session is not the end, it surely helps. And, I agree, at least on some occasions.



14 seconds- Cropped video (for Hands-free lotus)


Facebook Dhamma Talk video - Burmese (about 1 hours 10 mins)
https://www.facebook.com/10002454712989 ... 35692/?d=n






imo, Long hour sits in full-lotus (e.g nine hours, sixteen hours, etc.) are just part of the routine for old students in one of (a variation?) The-in-gu lineage, called The-In-Gu 32th Branch.
viewtopic.php?f=44&t=34156&hilit=actress#p510045
viewtopic.php?f=44&t=34156&p=529131&hil ... ss#p529107
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    V. Nanananda

𝓐𝓷𝓪𝓽𝓽ā 𝓜𝓮𝓪𝓷𝓼 𝓣𝓱𝓪𝓽 𝓣𝓱𝓮𝓻𝓮 𝓘𝓼
  • Nᴏ sᴜᴄʜ ᴛʜɪɴɢ ᴀs ᴀ Sᴇʟғ, Sᴏᴜʟ, Eɢᴏ, Sᴘɪʀɪᴛ, ᴏʀ Āᴛᴍᴀɴ
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DooDoot
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Re: Lotus Position

Post by DooDoot »

Wrong forced posture can distort your hips, diaphragm & breathing. Its not really for people without natural supple limbs or without a life history of sitting on the floor. Lotus position is superstition. Take care, please.
The diaphragm is often one of the most underestimated muscles in the body. It has a systemic impact on our health, including our pain perception, autonomic nervous system, lymphatic drainage, digestion, mood, and sleep. I often argue that it is the most important muscle in the body- it is the core of the core. Breathing is a coordinated movement of muscle and visceral contractions. It is a synchronous activity between the upper chest and rib cage, lower rib cage, and abdominal musculature. Our diaphragm not only attaches to the thorax, but it is strongly anchored to our spine and has connections to our deep hip flexor muscles (psoas), obliques, and transversus abdominus. Countless number of research studies have confirmed the relationship between faulty breathing mechanics and poor posture, abnormal scapular movements, low back pain, neck pain, temporomandibular joint pain, and pelvic floor disorders.

http://www.one2onephysicaltherapy.com/b ... ur-health/
There is a connection between the main breathing muscle, the diaphragm, to the hip flexor muscle, the psoas. Both of these essential muscles have a mutual attachment, the front of your lumbar spine. When these muscle fibers are not able to “play nice” and glide freely, dysfunction can manifest as restricted breathing on the side of the hip pain or tightness. And so, the cycle of muscular tightness and pain continues as the body creeps further into the pattern of restricted breathing.

https://bodygears.com/diaphragmatic-breathing-hip-pain/
Last edited by DooDoot on Sun Apr 12, 2020 1:43 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Aloka
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Re: Lotus Position

Post by Aloka »

DooDoot wrote: Sun Apr 12, 2020 1:29 pm Wrong forced posture can distort your hips, diaphragm & breathing. Its not really for people without natural supple limbs or without a life history of sitting on the floor. Lotus position is superstition. Take care, please.
:goodpost:
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Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta
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Re: Lotus Position

Post by Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta »

Novices & Five Hour Lotus sits
TheInGu-32 Center





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𝓑𝓾𝓭𝓭𝓱𝓪 𝓗𝓪𝓭 𝓤𝓷𝓮𝓺𝓾𝓲𝓿𝓸𝓬𝓪𝓵𝓵𝔂 𝓓𝓮𝓬𝓵𝓪𝓻𝓮𝓭 𝓣𝓱𝓪𝓽
  • Iᴅᴇᴀ ᴏꜰ Sᴏᴜʟ ɪs Oᴜᴛᴄᴏᴍᴇ ᴏꜰ ᴀɴ Uᴛᴛᴇʀʟʏ Fᴏᴏʟɪsʜ Vɪᴇᴡ
    V. Nanananda

𝓐𝓷𝓪𝓽𝓽ā 𝓜𝓮𝓪𝓷𝓼 𝓣𝓱𝓪𝓽 𝓣𝓱𝓮𝓻𝓮 𝓘𝓼
  • Nᴏ sᴜᴄʜ ᴛʜɪɴɢ ᴀs ᴀ Sᴇʟғ, Sᴏᴜʟ, Eɢᴏ, Sᴘɪʀɪᴛ, ᴏʀ Āᴛᴍᴀɴ
    V. Buddhādasa
[james]
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Re: Lotus Position

Post by [james] »

Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta wrote: Sat Dec 19, 2020 12:10 pm Novices & Five Hour Lotus sits
If they are novices, what are they being made to sit for five hours?
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rhinoceroshorn
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Re: Lotus Position

Post by rhinoceroshorn »

Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta wrote: Sat Dec 19, 2020 12:10 pm Novices & Five Hour Lotus sits
TheInGu-32 Center





:heart:
Beautiful. I hope I attain this level some day. :P
I barely bear keeping the lotus posture for more than a few minutes. I need more flexibility.
Eyes downcast, not footloose,
senses guarded, with protected mind,
not oozing — not burning — with lust,
wander alone
like a rhinoceros.
Sutta Nipāta 1.3 - Khaggavisana Sutta
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See, Ānanda! All those conditioned phenomena have passed, ceased, and perished. So impermanent are conditions, so unstable are conditions, so unreliable are conditions. This is quite enough for you to become disillusioned, dispassionate, and freed regarding all conditions.
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Spiny Norman
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Re: Lotus Position

Post by Spiny Norman »

Don't confuse meditation with yoga. For meditation it's fine to use a stool or a chair, whatever.
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[james]
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Re: Lotus Position

Post by [james] »

rhinoceroshorn wrote: Sat Dec 19, 2020 4:03 pm
Beautiful. I hope I attain this level some day. :P
Not to criticize your aspirations but I don’t see any particular level of attainment in these snap shots. A five hour video would more accurately show what is going on. I would suggest child mistreatment.
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