Rohingya Massacres, Theravada Complicity?

Theravāda in the 21st century - modern applications of ancient wisdom
Mawkish1983
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Re: Rohingya Massacres, Theravada Complicity?

Postby Mawkish1983 » Wed Aug 08, 2012 8:45 am

Regardless of the facts (or otherwise), the media reporting does affect the western public perception of Myanmar and Buddhism. Some of my friends smuggly present at these news reports as evidence that 'Buddhism is just another religion' and to show that 'all religions cause war'; or words to that effect. I try not to engage in those types of discussions because I don't know the facts and any defense of Buddhism would seemingly be driven from pride in the path I've chosen. Again, the facts become hidden by the effect of third party perception.

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imagemarie
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Re: Rohingya Massacres, Theravada Complicity?

Postby imagemarie » Wed Aug 08, 2012 9:05 am

Ben wrote:question everything and follow the evidence.


Is right I think. And I thank drifting cloud for raising the topic. I have, as a result, been doing my own researches on the internet.

but what good is there in condemning the monks, the Burmese, the Muslims, or the ethnic groups involved? It is a complicated issue


No good at all. But we can seek to understand, as much as possible, our own reactions to events that are reported, and to see where WE are invested.

:anjali:

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Re: Rohingya Massacres, Theravada Complicity?

Postby SDC » Wed Aug 08, 2012 2:35 pm

drifting cloud wrote:I am a little disappointed that this thread has garnered so little interest


You should be happy. Chalk up the lack of interest to people not seeing this issue as anymore important than any other just because it involves Buddhism.

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Re: Rohingya Massacres, Theravada Complicity?

Postby Dmytro » Thu Aug 09, 2012 4:46 am

A credible view from inside:

88 Generation Leaders Speak Out on Rohingya Issue

http://www.irrawaddy.org/archives/11004

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Re: Rohingya Massacres, Theravada Complicity?

Postby Dmytro » Thu Aug 09, 2012 5:05 am

An article from independent source:

How big is the Rohingya uprising?

http://www.facebook.com/notes/may-thing ... 7478288810
(also at http://moemaka.org/index.php?option=com ... Itemid=309 )

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Kim OHara
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Re: Rohingya Massacres, Theravada Complicity?

Postby Kim OHara » Thu Aug 09, 2012 5:58 am

Thanks for those links, Dmytro.
No references to Buddhist monks participating in any of the unrest there.
:juggling:

Kim

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Re: Rohingya Massacres, Theravada Complicity?

Postby Dmytro » Thu Aug 09, 2012 6:33 am

I lived for a long time in a big country which enthusiastically fought for freedom of oppressed people worldwide.
There were daily stories of minority heroes struggling against the unjust persecution abroad.
Schoolchildren wrote compositions in support of regime victims, and collected humanitarian aid to send abroad.
Newspapers mourned the poor people abroad, suffering from exploitation.

Actually, these were the crocodile's tears - the Soviet Union, under the guise of fighting for freedom, supported the subversive and terrorist groups worldwide.
Now this country is gone for good.

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Mr Man
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Re: Rohingya Massacres, Theravada Complicity?

Postby Mr Man » Thu Aug 09, 2012 8:57 am

Dmytro, so do you think that there is no reason for concern with how Rohingya are treated in Myanmar?


An article from independent source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-p ... 872635.stm

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Re: Rohingya Massacres, Theravada Complicity?

Postby Dmytro » Fri Aug 10, 2012 6:18 am

Mr Man wrote:Dmytro, so do you think that there is no reason for concern with how Rohingya are treated in Myanmar?


Mr Man, the problem is wider. The immigrants from Bangladesh won't come to Myanmar, Thailand and Malaysia if the conditions in Bangladesh weren't even worse.
Myanmar, Thailand and Malaysia won't grant them citizenship, so they are left without place to live.

Now that the climate change brought extensive flooding to Bangladesh, this exasperates the Bangladesh extreme conditions.
The climate change will bring a big northward wave of immigration worldwide.

Imagine for a moment a big wave of immigrants from South Africa settling in Greece, Italy and Spain, not assimilating culturally, and demanding their own autonomy.
Or a wave of Mexican immigrants oversweeping the border due to Mexican desertification.
This would also cause ethnical clashes.

Rohingya region is somewhat like Kosovo - there's no easy solution which would preserve the delicately balanced multinational integrity of Myanmar.

Surely there are grave reasons for concern. There's an urgent need for people who would be able to comprehend the entire situation and help to solve it without blaming and accusations. Perhaps UN would be helpful in this regard.

Even BBC, unfortunately, presents a biased view.

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Re: Rohingya Massacres, Theravada Complicity?

Postby Mr Man » Fri Aug 10, 2012 7:18 am

Dmytro, The Rohingya have generaly been settled in Myanmar for many decades. They, for the most, are not recent imigrants from Bangladesh they are not bengali. Myanmar it their home and they deserve to be recognised as a distinct ethnic group within that country.

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Re: Rohingya Massacres, Theravada Complicity?

Postby Dmytro » Fri Aug 10, 2012 7:37 am

Mr Man wrote:Dmytro, The Rohingya have generaly been settled in Myanmar for many decades. They, for the most, are not recent imigrants from Bangladesh they are not bengali.


Historically, they are recent immigrants, though indeed the new generation has been born in Myanmar.

Myanmar it their home and they deserve to be recognised as a distinct ethnic group within that country.


Their demands are more extensive:

"Rohingya demands the followings:

To give them nationality status and regard as an ethnicity;
To announce Buthi Tong and Maung Taw as Rohingya National Home;
To give them 40% control of the state government.

In fact, their demands are just the enforcements of their decisions from the first conference. ACP stated the demands would be considered even though they cannot be given at the moment. However, both ALP and ACP had to accept their demands for the reason that they are very strong. The regional conference agreed.To impose Rohingya Party as the only organization of Muslims in Arakan State. To give them western parts of Maung Taw and Buthi Tong, Naung Chaung and upper parts of Naung Cahaung as their home land. And the chairman of the military committee of the united front must be from Rohingya."

http://www.facebook.com/notes/may-thing ... 7478288810

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Re: Rohingya Massacres, Theravada Complicity?

Postby Mr Man » Fri Aug 10, 2012 8:25 am

Dmytro wrote:
Historically, they are recent immigrants, though indeed the new generation has been born in Myanmar.

It is more than one generation. I would imagine that vast majority of the Rohingya population were born in Myanmar.
Their demands are more extensive:

"Rohingya demands the followings:


These demands should not negate the, dare I say it, "rights" of the individual.

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Re: Rohingya Massacres, Theravada Complicity?

Postby Doshin » Fri Aug 10, 2012 11:18 am

drifting cloud wrote:I am a little disappointed that this thread has garnered so little interest - ...


No posts, does not conclude no interest. Personally I don't write, because I don't want to point fingers and accusing others of doing bad things.

I try to practice my right speech, by not grabbing the keyboard and display anger at somebody I don't know, in matters I don't have the needed insight into.

However I have much interest in the matter, and I'm almost out of salt.

drifting cloud wrote:... I had thought that orders of ordained monks advocating ethnic cleansing in Burma's Arakan State might have evoked some kind of reaction - I realize, of course, there are finer points of Pali translation to be endlessly debated without conclusion, but surely the posters here have some thoughts?


I find your sarcasm, to be a kind of anger. And by anger you don't achieve anything (good).

_/\_
Knowing about dhamma, does not imply knowing dhamma

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Re: Rohingya Massacres, Theravada Complicity?

Postby Dmytro » Fri Aug 10, 2012 2:27 pm

Mr Man wrote:These demands should not negate the, dare I say it, "rights" of the individual.


IMHO, the Western concept of supremacy of individual rights is somewhat self-contradictory and utopian.
There's often a chasm between declarated rights and actual possibilities.
In practice, this concept leads to denial of usage of any type of force, then to crisis due to inaction, and then to even more forceful outcomes.
For example, multiculturalism has spectacularly failed in Europe, and now strict cultural laws are adopted.
In USA, president Obama regularly signs the list of Islamic fundamentalists to be killed in Pakistan.
Even if the individual rights concept has some advantages, there's no reason to impose it in the East (including Myanmar) by pressure.
I find more useful the concept of common good by Plato, especially since it is consonant with Buddha's teaching.

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Re: Rohingya Massacres, Theravada Complicity?

Postby Mawkish1983 » Fri Aug 10, 2012 3:03 pm

Dmytro wrote:multiculturalism has spectacularly failed in Europe
No it hasn't.

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Re: Rohingya Massacres, Theravada Complicity?

Postby Ytrog » Fri Aug 10, 2012 7:19 pm

Mawkish1983 wrote:
Dmytro wrote:multiculturalism has spectacularly failed in Europe
No it hasn't.

I agree. Some people here for their own gain say it failed , but it hasn't failed at all in my experience.
Suffering is asking from life what it can never give you.


mindfulness, bliss and beyond (page 8) wrote:Do not linger on the past. Do not keep carrying around coffins full of dead moments


If you see any unskillful speech (or other action) from me let me know, so I can learn from it.

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Re: Rohingya Massacres, Theravada Complicity?

Postby plwk » Sat Aug 11, 2012 5:05 am

phpBB [video]
Bhikkhus, if you develop and make much this one thing,
it invariably leads to weariness, cessation, appeasement, realization and extinction.
What is it? It is recollecting the Enlightened One.
If this single thing is recollected and made much,
it invariably leads to weariness, cessation, appeasement, realization and extinction.

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Re: Rohingya Massacres, Theravada Complicity?

Postby LonesomeYogurt » Sat Aug 11, 2012 6:59 am

Whoever posted such a video is probably deeply hurt, confused and upset. The correct Buddhist response is not to get angry but instead to wish him or her freedom from suffering while reflecting on the sorrow they create for themselves through such disrespect.

I'm not implying that you are attempting to incite anger or hatred towards Muslims. However, such videos can be distressing reminders of the feelings some have towards the Buddhist community. It is important that, when our path is attacked so blatantly, we make sure to keep the simile of the saw in mind and wish our critics and detractors only the best. It is easy to fall into a reactionary "defender of the Dhamma" attitude that ultimately leads only to more discord.
Gain and loss, status and disgrace,
censure and praise, pleasure and pain:
these conditions among human beings are inconstant,
impermanent, subject to change.

Knowing this, the wise person, mindful,
ponders these changing conditions.
Desirable things don’t charm the mind,
undesirable ones bring no resistance.

His welcoming and rebelling are scattered,
gone to their end,
do not exist.
- Lokavipatti Sutta

Stuff I write about things.

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Re: Rohingya Massacres, Theravada Complicity?

Postby Anagarika » Sun Aug 12, 2012 2:13 pm

It must be the case that when there is human conflict, ethnic cleansing efforts, and intertribal conflicts, that true Buddhists always support the path that leads away from conflict, strife, and suffering. Buddhist monks as a rule should be an exception to the typical response of intracountry ethnic problems, and should promote a plan that leads to less conflict and suffering. If there are cases where there are Bhikkhus supporting the ethnic cleansing of Rohingya from Burma, and allowing them to suffer further by denying them aid relief, then these actions are contrary to the Dhamma, and they should answer to all right thinking Buddhists about their conduct.

There is a solution to the issues facing the Rohingya, Burma and the interethnic concerns that does not involve further violence and suffering. The solution may not be apparent, but it does fall to leaders like Aung San Suu Kyi to speak out against violence in this issue, and promote a solution that allows for international assistance to what really is a problem that affects all of us as members of the human race.

It's appropriate for the Buddhist community to excoriate and oppose the Chinese government for the suffering and destruction imposed on Tibet; by the same measure, we must also resist oppression and destruction in Burma, in whatever form it takes.

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Re: Rohingya Massacres, Theravada Complicity?

Postby Dmytro » Thu Aug 16, 2012 5:05 pm

News that Western media won't tell you:

Turkey’s Arakan Access Shows Govt Sincere: UN
http://www.irrawaddy.org/archives/11560

Curfews Cut Back in Arakan State as Tensions Ease
http://www.irrawaddy.org/?slide=curfews ... sions-ease

And what they would tell:
http://www.channel4.com/news/inside-bur ... dden-camps


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