The experience of the arahant

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retrofuturist
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The experience of the arahant

Postby retrofuturist » Sat Aug 11, 2012 5:05 am

Greetings,

I am looking to understand better the citta (mind) of the arahant, as understood in Classical Theravada.

I found the following online...

1. vitakka, vicara, piti, sukh’ekaggata sahitam
pathamajjhana arahatta-phala cittam.

2. vicara, piti, sukh’ekaggata sahitam
dutayajjhana arahatta-phala cittam.

3. piti, sukh’ekaggata sahitam
tatiyajjhana arahatta-phala cittam.

4. sukh’ekaggta sahitam
catutthajjhana arahatta-phala cittam.

5. upekkh’ekaggata sahitam
pancamajjhana arahatta-phala cittam.

Meanings

1. The first jhana arahatta fruit-consciousness together with initial application, sustained application, joy, bliss and one-pointedness.

2. The second jhana arahatta fruit-consciousness together with sustained application, joy, bliss and one-pointedness.

3. The third jhana arahatta fruit-consciousness together with joy, bliss and one-pointedness.

4. the fourth jhana arahatta fruit-consciousness together with bliss and one-pointedness.

5. The fifth jhana arahatta fruit-consciousness together with equanimity and one-pointedness.

Source: http://www.bddronline.net.au/bddr12no5/abhi013.html

But this only talks of the arahant's mind in the context of jhana... what about outside jhana?

A table at that same link enumerates the various cittas. There are 40 lokuttara enumerated... of which 32 are somanassa (glad-minded-ness), and 8 are upekkha (equanimity).

Does the arahant experience only lokuttara-citta, or can they still experience lokiya-citta?

Metta,
Retro. :)
"When we transcend one level of truth, the new level becomes what is true for us. The previous one is now false. What one experiences may not be what is experienced by the world in general, but that may well be truer. (Ven. Nanananda)

“I hope, Anuruddha, that you are all living in concord, with mutual appreciation, without disputing, blending like milk and water, viewing each other with kindly eyes.” (MN 31)

Never again...

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cooran
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Re: The experience of the arahant

Postby cooran » Sat Aug 11, 2012 8:08 am

Hello Retro,

You may be interested in this .pdf:

Scroll down to page 5 for discussion of Citta -

Attributes of an Arahant
http://www.buddhistteachings.org/wp-con ... rahant.pdf

addit: Beginning on page 101 of this link:
Rune E. A. Johanssen’s Analysis of Citta: A Criticism by Arvind Sharma
http://mcgill.academia.edu/ArvindSharma ... _Criticism


with metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
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Re: The experience of the arahant

Postby retrofuturist » Sat Aug 11, 2012 9:39 am

Greetings Chris,

Thanks for that - both were very interesting.

:reading: :reading:

Metta,
Retro. :)
"When we transcend one level of truth, the new level becomes what is true for us. The previous one is now false. What one experiences may not be what is experienced by the world in general, but that may well be truer. (Ven. Nanananda)

“I hope, Anuruddha, that you are all living in concord, with mutual appreciation, without disputing, blending like milk and water, viewing each other with kindly eyes.” (MN 31)

Never again...

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robertk
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Re: The experience of the arahant

Postby robertk » Sat Aug 11, 2012 10:08 am

Re retros question, yes of course arahats still experience lokiya dhammas!

Lokiya dhammas like seeing, color, hearing , sound etc are all - just as much as for a worling- part of an arahts daily life.
What never arises for the arahat- while a common part of daily life for the wordling- is anger, desire , ignorance , conceit and self view.

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retrofuturist
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Re: The experience of the arahant

Postby retrofuturist » Sat Aug 11, 2012 10:12 am

Thanks (as always) Robert.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"When we transcend one level of truth, the new level becomes what is true for us. The previous one is now false. What one experiences may not be what is experienced by the world in general, but that may well be truer. (Ven. Nanananda)

“I hope, Anuruddha, that you are all living in concord, with mutual appreciation, without disputing, blending like milk and water, viewing each other with kindly eyes.” (MN 31)

Never again...

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Re: The experience of the arahant

Postby robertk » Sat Aug 11, 2012 10:20 am

Thanks too, for bringing this up Retro.

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Re: The experience of the arahant

Postby Cittasanto » Sat Aug 11, 2012 12:58 pm

Hi Retro,
I do not the source but maybe of use

"The Arahants are individuals of one mind"
I believe it is one of the main disciples who said this, maybe Sariputta or Ananda.
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
Blog, - Some Suttas Translated, Ajahn Chah.
"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."

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Re: The experience of the arahant

Postby daverupa » Sat Aug 11, 2012 3:07 pm

Cittasanto wrote:Hi Retro,
I do not the source but maybe of use

"The Arahants are individuals of one mind"
I believe it is one of the main disciples who said this, maybe Sariputta or Ananda.


This phrase is used in the Culagosinga Sutta, MN 31. Anuruddha says, "Venerable sir, we are various in bodies and one single in mind", referring to Nandiya and Kimbila and himself and their ability to mix like milk and water.
    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.
- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]

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Cittasanto
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Re: The experience of the arahant

Postby Cittasanto » Sat Aug 11, 2012 5:00 pm

daverupa wrote:
Cittasanto wrote:Hi Retro,
I do not the source but maybe of use

"The Arahants are individuals of one mind"
I believe it is one of the main disciples who said this, maybe Sariputta or Ananda.


This phrase is used in the Culagosinga Sutta, MN 31. Anuruddha says, "Venerable sir, we are various in bodies and one single in mind", referring to Nandiya and Kimbila and himself and their ability to mix like milk and water.

Thanks Dave!
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
Blog, - Some Suttas Translated, Ajahn Chah.
"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."

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Ytrog
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Re: The experience of the arahant

Postby Ytrog » Sat Aug 11, 2012 6:08 pm

Cooran, how did you find these sources? I'm curious because I'm always wondering how some people on DhammaWheel come up with some sources. I really want to learn more. :reading:
Suffering is asking from life what it can never give you.


mindfulness, bliss and beyond (page 8) wrote:Do not linger on the past. Do not keep carrying around coffins full of dead moments


If you see any unskillful speech (or other action) from me let me know, so I can learn from it.


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