Selling medicine marijuana, is it violate the 5th precept

Buddhist ethical conduct including the Five Precepts (Pañcasikkhāpada), and Eightfold Ethical Conduct (Aṭṭhasīla).
daverupa
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Re: Selling medicine marijuana, is it violate the 5th precept

Post by daverupa »

Time Magazine reports:
In recent months, new research has explored some of these issues. One study led by Dr. Serge Sevy, an associate professor of psychiatry at the Albert Einstein College of Medicine in New York City, looked at 100 patients between the ages of 16 and 40 with schizophrenia, half of whom smoked marijuana. Sevy and colleagues found that among the marijuana users, 75% had begun smoking before the onset of schizophrenia and that their disease appeared about two years earlier than in those who did not use the drug. But when the researchers controlled for other factors known to influence schizophrenia risk, including gender, education and socioeconomic status, the association between disease onset and marijuana disappeared.

...

Within Krebs's study population of 190 patients (121 of whom had used cannabis), researchers found a subgroup of 44 whose disease was powerfully affected by the drug... The key difference between the cannabis-sensitive patients and the nonaffected group was a family history of disease: those in the former group had three times the number of close relatives with psychotic disorders, says Krebs. Further, the sensitive group started smoking pot at a younger age — before age 17, compared with 18 in patients without marijuana sensitivity — and Krebs thinks the early exposure may have critically altered the development of brain receptors affected by marijuana.
Anyway, it's quite complex. A discerning individual would not yet come to the conclusion that only this or that was true, and everything else false. Reasoned acceptance of a view can turn out in one of two ways, in the course of things...
  • "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.

- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
suttametta
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Re: Selling medicine marijuana, is it violate the 5th precept

Post by suttametta »

David N. Snyder wrote:I am not sure about its effectiveness in rheumatism, but have heard it is good for glaucoma, chemotherapy and AIDS patients, and others with chronic pain conditions.
Rheumatism is a kind of chronic pain.
suttametta
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Re: Selling medicine marijuana, is it violate the 5th precept

Post by suttametta »

I use dharma to treat the chronic pain in the leg I almost lost in a motorcycle accident. In 2002, I collided with a car that sent me 50 feet in the air and left both my shins in compound fractures. I nearly lost my left leg below the knee, but they saved it with by doing an abdominal flap, removing my left rectal abdominal muscle and transplanting it to my shin. It took me about three years to be able to walk with a limp and another 7 to be able to jog. Severe chronic pain and nerve damage defines this period. In the past three years, I have dedicated myself to using dharma to recover from the pain, physical and emotional disabilities that came from this time. I now can sit in full lotus as long as I want, and just this past month I have been able to jog again. Keeping my mind in a meditative state helped me to keep trying to run despite the pain, and finally the pain went away and my legs feel normal again. In contrast, marijuana clouded my mind, made me focus on the pain and made me emotional. I dropped the medical marijuana path and went full bore into dharma.
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LonesomeYogurt
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Re: Selling medicine marijuana, is it violate the 5th precept

Post by LonesomeYogurt »

danieLion wrote:Hi LY,
Who gets to decide medical value?
Best,
Daniel
Your question is a non-sequiter. Regardless of who legally dictates the medicinal value, even a cursory glance at the industry shows that such decisions are being made so negligently that any planned "The doctors know better than you do!" defense just doesn't stand up.
Gain and loss, status and disgrace,
censure and praise, pleasure and pain:
these conditions among human beings are inconstant,
impermanent, subject to change.

Knowing this, the wise person, mindful,
ponders these changing conditions.
Desirable things don’t charm the mind,
undesirable ones bring no resistance.

His welcoming and rebelling are scattered,
gone to their end,
do not exist.
- Lokavipatti Sutta

Stuff I write about things.
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Annapurna
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Re: Selling medicine marijuana, is it violate the 5th precept

Post by Annapurna »

suttametta wrote:I use dharma to treat the chronic pain in the leg I almost lost in a motorcycle accident. In 2002, I collided with a car that sent me 50 feet in the air and left both my shins in compound fractures. I nearly lost my left leg below the knee, but they saved it with by doing an abdominal flap, removing my left rectal abdominal muscle and transplanting it to my shin. It took me about three years to be able to walk with a limp and another 7 to be able to jog. Severe chronic pain and nerve damage defines this period. In the past three years, I have dedicated myself to using dharma to recover from the pain, physical and emotional disabilities that came from this time. I now can sit in full lotus as long as I want, and just this past month I have been able to jog again. Keeping my mind in a meditative state helped me to keep trying to run despite the pain, and finally the pain went away and my legs feel normal again. In contrast, marijuana clouded my mind, made me focus on the pain and made me emotional. I dropped the medical marijuana path and went full bore into dharma.
I'm glad to hear about your successful recovery and wish you lots of good moments in the future!
danieLion
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Re: Selling medicine marijuana, is it violate the 5th precept

Post by danieLion »

LonesomeYogurt wrote:
danieLion wrote:Hi LY,
Who gets to decide medical value?
Best,
Daniel
Your question is a non-sequiter. Regardless of who legally dictates the medicinal value, even a cursory glance at the industry shows that such decisions are being made so negligently that any planned "The doctors know better than you do!" defense just doesn't stand up.
Hi LY,

Which kind of "non-sequiter" did you mean?

So, is "the law" your answer? And it's not dictate, it's decide.

What industry? Did you go beyond a cursory glance?

There's only one correct answer to the question, "Who decides medical value?"
The health care consumer.

In your post, who/what is the referent for "planned"?

Why is a "defense" required? Who's "standing up" to who?

Best,
Daniel
danieLion
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Re: Selling medicine marijuana, is it violate the 5th precept

Post by danieLion »

daverupa wrote:Time Magazine reports:
In recent months, new research has explored some of these issues. One study led by Dr. Serge Sevy, an associate professor of psychiatry at the Albert Einstein College of Medicine in New York City, looked at 100 patients between the ages of 16 and 40 with schizophrenia, half of whom smoked marijuana. Sevy and colleagues found that among the marijuana users, 75% had begun smoking before the onset of schizophrenia and that their disease appeared about two years earlier than in those who did not use the drug. But when the researchers controlled for other factors known to influence schizophrenia risk, including gender, education and socioeconomic status, the association between disease onset and marijuana disappeared.

...

Within Krebs's study population of 190 patients (121 of whom had used cannabis), researchers found a subgroup of 44 whose disease was powerfully affected by the drug... The key difference between the cannabis-sensitive patients and the nonaffected group was a family history of disease: those in the former group had three times the number of close relatives with psychotic disorders, says Krebs. Further, the sensitive group started smoking pot at a younger age — before age 17, compared with 18 in patients without marijuana sensitivity — and Krebs thinks the early exposure may have critically altered the development of brain receptors affected by marijuana.

Anyway, it's quite complex. A discerning individual would not yet come to the conclusion that only this or that was true, and everything else false. Reasoned acceptance of a view can turn out in one of two ways, in the course of things...
Hi Dave,
Thanks for proceeding counterinductively. I appreciate it. I'm neither convinced nor dissuaded that the hypothetico-deductive "method" (with it's "radomizations" and "'double-blind' controls") yields results any better than correlational studies. Sampling procedures are enough alone to give anyone with even a basic understanding of the philosophy of science pause. The sample sizes in the Time article you cite are an example.
Best,
Daniel
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Aloka
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Re: Selling medicine marijuana, is it violate the 5th precept

Post by Aloka »

danieLion wrote:
danieLion wrote: Hi Aloka,

Did you actually look at those REEFER MADNESS studies? Pot use is no more "linked" to schizophrenia and psychosis than tap water.


Aloka wrote:Additionally the 'skunk' available to kids on the streets today is incredibly powerful stuff .
Hi Aloka,
That's what people who use it medicinally call progress.

And: what "streets"? Which "kids"?
Best,
Daniel
What "streets" ?
The streets of broken-down inner city housing estates in UK cities.
Which "kids"?
The children and teenagers who hang out on those streets smoking skunk because there's nothing else for them to do when they're not at school. (e.g. there are no youth centres or free sports facilities)

.
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badscooter
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Re: Selling medicine marijuana, is it violate the 5th precept

Post by badscooter »

I believe it is going against the 5th precept. Marijuana is an intoxicant that effects the brain. This is against the precept regardless of what medical benefits it has or could have. Attachment to life and/or aversion to physical pain, imo, causes the most suffering in the world today. One shouldn't break the precepts just because they dislike how reality actually is at the present moment. So much craving to have something not be the way it is. Just my opinion. :)
with metta
"whatever one frequently thinks and ponders upon will be the inclination of one's mind"
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marc108
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Re: Selling medicine marijuana, is it violate the 5th precept

Post by marc108 »

Billymac29 wrote:this is against the precept regardless of what medical benefits it has or could have. Attachment to life and/or aversion to physical pain, imo, causes the most suffering in the world today. One shouldn't break the precepts just because they dislike how reality actually is at the present moment.
i'm sorry but i must disagree with you strongly. you speak like someone who has never been in severe pain that wont let up... even the Buddha laid down when his back hurt. many medicines, even ones that arent used for pain, can become intoxicating at higher doses... even simple cooking spices can become intoxicating at higher doses. the dose makes the medicine... even monks are, for example, permitted to use medicines that are extracted with alcohol. what matters, is the intention... is the intention to use the substance as medicine or to use it for intoxication.
"It's easy for us to connect with what's wrong with us... and not so easy to feel into, or to allow us, to connect with what's right and what's good in us."
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Cittasanto
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Re: Selling medicine marijuana, is it violate the 5th precept

Post by Cittasanto »

Billymac29 wrote:I believe it is going against the 5th precept. Marijuana is an intoxicant that effects the brain. This is against the precept regardless of what medical benefits it has or could have. Attachment to life and/or aversion to physical pain, imo, causes the most suffering in the world today. One shouldn't break the precepts just because they dislike how reality actually is at the present moment. So much craving to have something not be the way it is. Just my opinion. :)
with metta
as already pointed out, Marajuana was allowed by the Buddha for Rheumatoid pain.
and the Buddha advises us to look after this body & to keep healthy.
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.

He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
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badscooter
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Re: Selling medicine marijuana, is it violate the 5th precept

Post by badscooter »

as already pointed out, Marajuana was allowed by the Buddha for Rheumatoid pain.
and the Buddha advises us to look after this body & to keep healthy.
Where did the buddha talk about marijuana?

with metta
"whatever one frequently thinks and ponders upon will be the inclination of one's mind"
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Cittasanto
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Re: Selling medicine marijuana, is it violate the 5th precept

Post by Cittasanto »

Billymac29 wrote:
as already pointed out, Marajuana was allowed by the Buddha for Rheumatoid pain.
and the Buddha advises us to look after this body & to keep healthy.
Where did the buddha talk about marijuana?

with metta
it is within the vinaya!
as already mentioned in the thread here http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.ph ... 94#p200739" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.

He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
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badscooter
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Re: Selling medicine marijuana, is it violate the 5th precept

Post by badscooter »

i'm sorry but i must disagree with you strongly. you speak like someone who has never been in severe pain that wont let up... even the Buddha laid down when his back hurt. many medicines, even ones that arent used for pain, can become intoxicating at higher doses... even simple cooking spices can become intoxicating at higher doses. the dose makes the medicine... even monks are, for example, permitted to use medicines that are extracted with alcohol. what matters, is the intention... is the intention to use the substance as medicine or to use it for intoxication.
I've had pain before. I never said that certain medicines were off the list of the 5th precept. Sorry, that is the precept.. If your afraid to die or get sick, then thats suffering.. Show me the sutta where buddha told people to smoke pot and i will believe it.
The buddha laid down cause he was in pain.. He didn't smoke pot..lol

with metta
:anjali:
"whatever one frequently thinks and ponders upon will be the inclination of one's mind"
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badscooter
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Re: Selling medicine marijuana, is it violate the 5th precept

Post by badscooter »

Cittasanto wrote:
Billymac29 wrote:
as already pointed out, Marajuana was allowed by the Buddha for Rheumatoid pain.
and the Buddha advises us to look after this body & to keep healthy.
Where did the buddha talk about marijuana?

with metta
it is within the vinaya!
as already mentioned in the thread here http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.ph ... 94#p200739" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
thats a link to a dhammawiki site..... where in the actual parts of the vinaya is marijuana stated?

with metta
"whatever one frequently thinks and ponders upon will be the inclination of one's mind"
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