porpoise wrote:So do you mean consciousness is always aware of something, even if it's just an absence?
manas wrote:Hi everyone
we are supposed to be seeing how even consciousness is impermanent, liable to arising and passing away and thus not fitting to be regarded as me or mine. And not just believing it, nor just accepting this after having pondered over it with a 'modicum of discenrnment', but more than this: 'knowing and seeing' it as such.
Here is the problem for me. I'm sitting in meditation and can perceive feelings arise and pass away. No problem - feelings are not self. I can perceive how thoughts appear and disappear (not with perfect clarity - rather murkily - but enough to know that thoughts do come and go), I can perceive how states of mind can change, sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse. No problem - states of mind are not self, since they are also liable to change & alteration. [b]But through it all, some awareness is present.[/b] In fact, more present than usual. That awareness is consciousness, aware of the other four khandhas. But how on earth could consciousness see that it isn't the 'one who knows' the one who is witnessing all of this arising and passing away, *but rather* is actually just as dependent upon a cause as the other constituents of existence, unless it witnessed it's own dissolution? And that does not make sense. A man can stand by the side of the road and see that another man has been run over by a truck. But if he himself gets run over by the truck, he is no longer a witness, but rather the victim. And he won't witness himself 'standing there', and then: 'no longer standing there' - his last perception will just be, 'truck'. And a loud bang. But he won't perceive his own absence. How could he, if he is no longer there to witness it?
I welcome any advice that can be given. Feel free to wake me up by any means possible. Because this doubt needs to be cleared up.
Hi reflectionreflection wrote:I realise my previous post although well intended, may not have been the most helpful in removing some doubt. While it is actually quite a good question. So here is another answer:
First of all there are multiple kinds of consciousness. Mental consciousness can know about the other types of consciousness, so if 5-sense consciousness falls away, the mind can know this directly. Although in my experience often it won't notice untill the respective consciousness comes back. For example, when the body falls away from awareness, the mind doesn't always realise untill it comes back in.
But how can mental consciousness see it's rise and fall? It can see it after the fall. When it comes back, it knows it's been away.
How to practice that? Well, the 8-fold path.
manas wrote:reflection wrote:I appreciate all the replies given to my original post here. Sorry I can't give detailed replies right now, but lately this particular subject causes me stress if I ponder over it too much. Basically, From time to time, I can observe how all five khandhas are at play in life, and it is interesting. That is all I'm doing for now - just observing. But if I think too much about them, it leads to stress.
Yes, there is a Path that seems to lead in the right direction. To less fog, and more clarity. I'm sticking with it for now,
There is the (noting)mind that observe the play of the six senses. Once that is clearly established one becomes aware of this (noting)mind that is watching. The watcher becomes the watched.Put your mind at the solar plexus. Don’t label. Just be aware of what is happening. If you hear something, just know there is hearing. If you know what sound it is you are hearing, this is not meditation.
It’s only meditation when there are two minds:
Knowing-noting mind and observing mind.
If there is only one mind, ‘I’ is always there.
The object is not the dhamma,
The dhamma is the mind
That is being aware.
You don’t need to follow the objects or identify or know them. Awareness will do it’s own work.
Even when the person sleeps the Dhamma does not sleep, even when you are near death and you are overcome by exhaustion, the feeling of being overcome is just the feeling of being overcome, knowing it, is separate from the sensation.
Shwe Oo Min Sayadaw