Samatha to See Gods.

An open and inclusive investigation into Buddhism and spiritual cultivation
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Son
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Re: Samatha to See Gods.

Postby Son » Fri Aug 17, 2012 5:30 am

whynotme wrote:
Son wrote:
whynotme wrote:Just out of curiosity, do they cast shadow on the ground or another object? I mean are they transparent/opaque in visible light?

Regards.


I don't know about translucent, but they exist with their own luminance. They have form and that includes solidity. I suppose you would say they're somewhat opaque. You can see what is behind them but that is because of gross light meeting your eyes. You see the deva with the divine eye, which is perceiving form and has the contact of eye-sight-consciousness. It's difficult to describe because unlike the fleshy eye, the divine eye does not see obscurations. I suppose the opaqueness depends on how focused you are in your divine sight at the time and how clearly they are revealing themselves to you. However in themselves they are not really translucent at all. This is a question of view.

No, I think they are opaque and solid to divine eye. What I meant is something like this, transparent in one view but opaque in another view. Sillicon is transparent in infra red but opaque in normal light. Similarity, I want to ask that Devas are supposed opaque to divine eye but do they interact with normal light, i.e create shadow on the ground when they are block the light source, i.e the sun (in the scientific manner).

I just want to ask do they create any shadow on the ground when they appear? If there isn't any shadow on the ground then they don't interact with normal light even when revealing themselves. If so, one must try other wavelengths to capture their image, i.e infra red, ultra violet, x-ray.. Or they don't interact with any electromagnetic radiation at all.


I can't say that they do not interact with electromagnetic radiation at all. This is very delicate and interesting analysis and is probably much easier for intellectually inclined devas. No, devas don't cast shadows. They have their own subtle light. It's not made of photons so photons pass right through their body. Otherwise people would see them, or even if they were vibrating too quickly, they would show up at least sometimes in photographs. In theory. In practice, they do not have shadows fair and square. Some of them can look and touch in several directions at once, generating multiple faces or arms, indicating a lack of divine luminescent obscurity in general, but not ruling it out as a possibility. In short, since you do not see a deva with the flesh eye, which perceives shadows and electromagnetic radiation, there is no possibility of a shadow. What's more, they cannot block out the sunlight physically.

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Re: Samatha to See Gods.

Postby rowyourboat » Fri Aug 17, 2012 7:11 am

Hi son

I posted the extract from the Mahanama sutta so that you could perhaps do something useful in a dhammic sense with your ability.
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whynotme
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Re: Samatha to See Gods.

Postby whynotme » Fri Aug 17, 2012 11:22 am

Son wrote:I can't say that they do not interact with electromagnetic radiation at all. This is very delicate and interesting analysis and is probably much easier for intellectually inclined devas. No, devas don't cast shadows. They have their own subtle light. It's not made of photons so photons pass right through their body. Otherwise people would see them, or even if they were vibrating too quickly, they would show up at least sometimes in photographs. In theory. In practice, they do not have shadows fair and square. Some of them can look and touch in several directions at once, generating multiple faces or arms, indicating a lack of divine luminescent obscurity in general, but not ruling it out as a possibility. In short, since you do not see a deva with the flesh eye, which perceives shadows and electromagnetic radiation, there is no possibility of a shadow. What's more, they cannot block out the sunlight physically.

Thank you.
So how do devas interact with physical objects? I.e have you seen naga swimming? Does he create waves by movements of his body or he just go through the water? Do devas movement limited by physical objects like wall, tree or they just go through those objects?
If a deva lifts a stone, a normal person will just see it as floating?

Regards.
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Son
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Re: Samatha to See Gods.

Postby Son » Fri Aug 17, 2012 8:38 pm

whynotme wrote:
Son wrote:I can't say that they do not interact with electromagnetic radiation at all. This is very delicate and interesting analysis and is probably much easier for intellectually inclined devas. No, devas don't cast shadows. They have their own subtle light. It's not made of photons so photons pass right through their body. Otherwise people would see them, or even if they were vibrating too quickly, they would show up at least sometimes in photographs. In theory. In practice, they do not have shadows fair and square. Some of them can look and touch in several directions at once, generating multiple faces or arms, indicating a lack of divine luminescent obscurity in general, but not ruling it out as a possibility. In short, since you do not see a deva with the flesh eye, which perceives shadows and electromagnetic radiation, there is no possibility of a shadow. What's more, they cannot block out the sunlight physically.

Thank you.
So how do devas interact with physical objects? I.e have you seen naga swimming? Does he create waves by movements of his body or he just go through the water? Do devas movement limited by physical objects like wall, tree or they just go through those objects?
If a deva lifts a stone, a normal person will just see it as floating?

Regards.


The same laws apply. They are not subject to our physical matter, but rather their own. Just as they don't react to electromagnetic radiation (which is actually just derived from matter), they don't react to any physical matter. At this point it is very useful to have insight into the four (six) elements as they apply to quantum physics and subatomic particles. When I saw the naga in the water, he did not interact with the water, he was just there in his own way like other devas. They do feel the water, but they have subtle form so it doesn't affect the water like we do or animals. There is both gross and subtle solidity, fluidity, motion, etc., as the Buddha insinuated. Solidity applies molecularly, subatomically, and subtly. It even applies to fundamental form as in the rupaloka devas. In essence, "water" to the naga is not "water" to us, it's subtle and not gross.


Venturing into theory now, in my opinion if a deva were to lift a stone, well that would mean that they're somehow affecting the composition of the stone so that it inherits subtle qualities that affect the stone's gross physicality. But I wouldn't wonder about that much because it's very speculative and theoretical.
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Re: Samatha to See Gods.

Postby whynotme » Sat Aug 18, 2012 3:53 am

Many thanks,

What happened to the asura you want to evict? Is he in your house? Is he gone now?

I remember in Vinaya a monk had problems with non human being, many cures didn't help, then he went to abattoir and drunk blood, it helped and then the Buddha allowed it in similar cases. It seemed that asuras or devas in general hate and go away of disgusting, stinking, dirty things. Anyway, in a harsh situation, hope everyone have the will and found a way to bear it

Regards.
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Re: Samatha to See Gods.

Postby Son » Sat Aug 18, 2012 4:10 am

whynotme wrote:Many thanks,

What happened to the asura you want to evict? Is he in your house? Is he gone now?

I remember in Vinaya a monk had problems with non human being, many cures didn't help, then he went to abattoir and drunk blood, it helped and then the Buddha allowed it in similar cases. It seemed that asuras or devas in general hate and go away of disgusting, stinking, dirty things. Anyway, in a harsh situation, hope everyone have the will and found a way to bear it

Regards.


we still haven't solved the problem. We negotiated with him but it didn't bear good results.
Actually, one of his suggesting demands was in fact blood offering. Another was a servant with his own room.
A seed sleeps in soil.
It's cold and alone, hopeless.
Until it blooms above.

whynotme
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Re: Samatha to See Gods.

Postby whynotme » Sat Aug 18, 2012 10:25 am

I don't think you should follow his unusual demands at all. Did you try to seek advice and help from other devas? Maybe they will understand him better than us human.
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Re: Samatha to See Gods.

Postby Son » Sun Aug 19, 2012 7:56 am

whynotme wrote:I don't think you should follow his unusual demands at all. Did you try to seek advice and help from other devas? Maybe they will understand him better than us human.


Of course not. Of course not.

What we are going to do, is Monday, we're going to clean the house and tidy everything up. Then I'm going to cleanse the household, erect this Laughing Buddha she has, and then while they pray I'm going to bless the space. I'm using my singing bowl and chanting the Lord Avalokiteshvara's mantra (om mane padme hung).
A seed sleeps in soil.
It's cold and alone, hopeless.
Until it blooms above.

whynotme
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Re: Samatha to See Gods.

Postby whynotme » Tue Aug 21, 2012 1:24 pm

Dear Son,

How are things going? Have you evicted that asura yet?

Regards
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