the great Nibbana = annihilation, eternal, or something else thread

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Modus.Ponens
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Cessation of perception and feeling and Nibbana

Postby Modus.Ponens » Mon Apr 30, 2012 4:32 pm

Hello.

I've been intrigued for a long time as to why the Buddha teached the formless jhanas. They are not included in the right concentration classification. Plus, they lead to rebirth in states of ignorance. But I found a sutta I'd like to discuss. It can be found here: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

The crucial passage is: "Then there is the case where a monk, with the complete transcending of the dimension of neither perception nor non-perception, enters & remains in the cessation of perception & feeling. And, having seen [that] with discernment, his mental fermentations are completely ended. Even this much is described by the Blessed One as the attaining of an opening in a confining place, without a sequel."

This seems to be the purpose of teaching the formless jhanas. They lead, step by step, to the attainment of nirodha samapatti. And then, when this state is seen with discernment, it leads to Nibbana.

So what is the relation between nirodha samapatti and nibbana? Or, in a different manner, what is it about nirodha samapatti that is important to realise nibbana?
He turns his mind away from those phenomena, and having done so, inclines his mind to the property of deathlessness: 'This is peace, this is exquisite — the resolution of all fabrications; the relinquishment of all acquisitions; the ending of craving; dispassion; cessation; Unbinding.'
(Jhana Sutta - Thanissaro Bhikkhu translation)

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Re: Cessation of perception and feeling and Nibbana

Postby daverupa » Mon Apr 30, 2012 6:10 pm


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Modus.Ponens
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Re: Cessation of perception and feeling and Nibbana

Postby Modus.Ponens » Mon Apr 30, 2012 6:20 pm

I think you missed the point. There are various ways to realise nibbana, such as the samadhi focusing on anicca, the samadhi focusing on dukha and the samadhi focusing on anatta. This sutta indicates another way to realise it. What I'm asking is what is the process through which nibbana is realised by seeing with discernment the cessation of perception and feeling. I'm asking about this process in particular.
He turns his mind away from those phenomena, and having done so, inclines his mind to the property of deathlessness: 'This is peace, this is exquisite — the resolution of all fabrications; the relinquishment of all acquisitions; the ending of craving; dispassion; cessation; Unbinding.'
(Jhana Sutta - Thanissaro Bhikkhu translation)

Sarva
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Re: Cessation of perception and feeling and Nibbana

Postby Sarva » Mon Apr 30, 2012 6:30 pm

“Both formerly & now, it is only stress that I describe, and the cessation of stress.” — SN 22:86

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Re: Cessation of perception and feeling and Nibbana

Postby Cafael Dust » Mon Apr 30, 2012 6:51 pm

The other day a thought came to me about just this question. I think it may be something similar to near death experiences - perhaps nirodha samapatti and what happens then shows the mind that there is nothing to fear, thus nothing i.e. self, to protect.

But then, work needs to be done on actualising this in daily life, hence the attainment is not the end of the path.
Not twice, not three times, not once,
the wheel is turning.

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Modus.Ponens
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Re: Cessation of perception and feeling and Nibbana

Postby Modus.Ponens » Mon Apr 30, 2012 6:56 pm

He turns his mind away from those phenomena, and having done so, inclines his mind to the property of deathlessness: 'This is peace, this is exquisite — the resolution of all fabrications; the relinquishment of all acquisitions; the ending of craving; dispassion; cessation; Unbinding.'
(Jhana Sutta - Thanissaro Bhikkhu translation)

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Re: Cessation of perception and feeling and Nibbana

Postby Nyana » Mon Apr 30, 2012 7:00 pm


rowyourboat
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Re: Cessation of perception and feeling and Nibbana

Postby rowyourboat » Mon Apr 30, 2012 7:05 pm

Nirodha samapatti is not essential to realise nibbana.

The non-returner has removed five of the lower fetters to samsara and therefore is able to access nirodha samapatti (no others apart from arahanths who posses the 8th jhana can enter into it). It is therefore unlikely if not impossible that insight into anicca dukkha anatta is absent (more likely to be particularly strong) in these individuals.

This sutta may help

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

The three doors to nibbana maybe connected but I'm not sure.

With metta

Matheesha
With Metta

Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha

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Modus.Ponens
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Re: Cessation of perception and feeling and Nibbana

Postby Modus.Ponens » Mon Apr 30, 2012 7:35 pm

Thanks Nana. :smile:
He turns his mind away from those phenomena, and having done so, inclines his mind to the property of deathlessness: 'This is peace, this is exquisite — the resolution of all fabrications; the relinquishment of all acquisitions; the ending of craving; dispassion; cessation; Unbinding.'
(Jhana Sutta - Thanissaro Bhikkhu translation)

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Nibbana = universal consciousness?

Postby Nyana » Wed Aug 22, 2012 8:00 pm


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Nibbana = universal consciousness?

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Nibbana = universal consciousness?

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Nibbana = universal consciousness?

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Nibbana = universal consciousness?

Postby kirk5a » Thu Aug 23, 2012 1:02 am

"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230

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Nibbana = universal consciousness?

Postby manas » Thu Aug 23, 2012 1:14 am

Then the Blessed One, picking up a tiny bit of dust with the tip of his fingernail, said to the monk, "There isn't even this much form...feeling...
perception...fabrications...consciousness that is constant, lasting, eternal, not subject to change, that will stay just as it is as long as eternity."

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Nibbana = universal consciousness?

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daverupa
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Nibbana = universal consciousness?

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suttametta
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Nibbana = universal consciousness?

Postby suttametta » Thu Aug 23, 2012 10:17 pm


suttametta
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Nibbana = universal consciousness?

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suttametta
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Nibbana = universal consciousness?

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