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Purely mental absorption (jhana) in the suttas - Page 4 - Dhamma Wheel

Purely mental absorption (jhana) in the suttas

The cultivation of calm or tranquility and the development of concentration
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reflection
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Re: Purely mental absorption (jhana) in the suttas

Postby reflection » Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:48 am

Well, I didn't want to charge at others view, so I left it open to interpretation. But yeah, "desire of desire" sounds a bit strange. It's more reasonable to say the escape from the 5 senses is through letting go the desire for the five senses. This seems to me more a recipe for non-returning than it does for jhana (although it could both be inferred, subduing referring to jhana, abandoning to non-returning), but still the reasoning stays the same, "desire of desire" is obviously not what the Buddha was pointing to to here.

Thank you for SN35.13, I'll see if I can look at it later.

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daverupa
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Re: Purely mental absorption (jhana) in the suttas

Postby daverupa » Fri Aug 24, 2012 11:15 am


Sylvester
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Re: Purely mental absorption (jhana) in the suttas

Postby Sylvester » Fri Aug 24, 2012 2:57 pm


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daverupa
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Re: Purely mental absorption (jhana) in the suttas

Postby daverupa » Fri Aug 24, 2012 6:08 pm

I see satipatthana as a near-synonym of jhana, as one is to develop it with vitakka-vicara, then with vicara, and then without either. So, samadhi without effort perhaps correlates with "...born of samadhi/unification of mind" and not "...born of seclusion" in the pericopes for the first two jhanas. Indeed, we can see the anapanasati lines "...calming bodily fabrication/calming mental fabrication/releasing the mind" as instructions for enacting this transition.

In any event, I'm disinclined to see a lack of will in jhana, as I consider that one directs ones mind to the destruction of the taints from within (fourth) jhana; the calming of fabrications is one thing, but the presence of right effort within the Samadhi category of the Path means that the suggestion that right effort drops away in right samadhi is wholly mysterious to me.

Finally, AN 9.37 is an odd one, in that it talks of the formless attainments without mentioning jhana at all. I'm fairly suspicious of conclusions about jhana built up on that sort of thing, but mileage varies.

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reflection
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Re: Purely mental absorption (jhana) in the suttas

Postby reflection » Fri Aug 24, 2012 7:51 pm

For those interested, from time to time I keep editing the first post. Just now I added a bit of commentary (= personal interpretation) to MN 140. Feel free to comment.

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Re: Purely mental absorption (jhana) in the suttas

Postby Sylvester » Sat Aug 25, 2012 3:18 am


danieLion
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Re: Purely mental absorption (jhana) in the suttas

Postby danieLion » Sat Aug 25, 2012 7:55 am


Sylvester
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Re: Purely mental absorption (jhana) in the suttas

Postby Sylvester » Sat Aug 25, 2012 12:42 pm


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daverupa
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Re: Purely mental absorption (jhana) in the suttas

Postby daverupa » Sat Aug 25, 2012 7:43 pm


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Re: Purely mental absorption (jhana) in the suttas

Postby Sylvester » Sun Aug 26, 2012 5:31 am


danieLion
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Re: Purely mental absorption (jhana) in the suttas

Postby danieLion » Sun Aug 26, 2012 11:14 pm


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Re: Purely mental absorption (jhana) in the suttas

Postby danieLion » Sun Aug 26, 2012 11:27 pm


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Re: Purely mental absorption (jhana) in the suttas

Postby danieLion » Sun Aug 26, 2012 11:30 pm


Sylvester
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Re: Purely mental absorption (jhana) in the suttas

Postby Sylvester » Mon Aug 27, 2012 3:56 am


danieLion
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Re: Purely mental absorption (jhana) in the suttas

Postby danieLion » Mon Aug 27, 2012 11:22 pm


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Re: Purely mental absorption (jhana) in the suttas

Postby danieLion » Tue Aug 28, 2012 12:30 am


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Re: Purely mental absorption (jhana) in the suttas

Postby danieLion » Tue Aug 28, 2012 12:35 am


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Re: Purely mental absorption (jhana) in the suttas

Postby Sylvester » Tue Aug 28, 2012 2:17 am


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reflection
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Re: Purely mental absorption (jhana) in the suttas

Postby reflection » Tue Aug 28, 2012 4:44 am

Guys, this is not about Venerable Thanissaro, not about Venerable Brahmavamso. Neither is it about Sylvester or danieLion or reflection or whoever. So may I ask you to keep it a bit impersonal? I understand you defending your positions, but the last posts really represent nothing substantial, or nothing that's already been said. You got the freedom to say whatever you want of course, but this is just me asking as a dhamma friend to another dhamma friend to keep it a bit ontopic.

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marc108
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Re: Purely mental absorption (jhana) in the suttas

Postby marc108 » Tue Aug 28, 2012 7:26 am

"It's easy for us to connect with what's wrong with us... and not so easy to feel into, or to allow us, to connect with what's right and what's good in us."


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