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Pali training rules - Dhamma Wheel

Pali training rules

Explore the ancient language of the Tipitaka and Theravāda commentaries

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Caraka
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Pali training rules

Postby Caraka » Mon Aug 27, 2012 6:19 pm


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Re: Pali training rules

Postby David N. Snyder » Mon Aug 27, 2012 6:28 pm

heedlessness : (m.) pamāda. (f.) anavadhānatā; asamekkhakāritā.

Drugs cause heedlessness so it is safe to say the precept includes drugs. Most street drugs today were not around at that time and fermented drinks were the more common intoxicant.
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Re: Pali training rules

Postby lament » Mon Aug 27, 2012 6:35 pm


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Re: Pali training rules

Postby David2 » Mon Aug 27, 2012 6:38 pm

Well, majja (from the root mad) just means intoxicant.

I'm pretty sure that even at the time when the Buddha was living there were more intoxicants than just alcohol. So, the Buddha first mentioned the two most common intoxicants, liquor and fermented liquor, and than he concluded in general: majja, (all) intoxicants that make one heedless.

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Re: Pali training rules

Postby Caraka » Tue Aug 28, 2012 7:15 am


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Re: Pali training rules

Postby David2 » Tue Aug 28, 2012 7:32 am


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Re: Pali training rules

Postby Cittasanto » Tue Aug 28, 2012 7:45 am

here is a word for word of the particular part of the 5th precept
Surāmerayamajjapamādṭṭhānā
Surāmeraya – rum & spirits.
Surā - intoxicating liquor.
meraya - fermented liquor.
Majjapa - one drinks, strong drinks.
Majja - an intoxicant.
Pamāda - negligence; indolence; remissness; carelessness.
Māda - pride; intoxication; conceit; sexual excess.
ṭhānā - place; locality; condition; reason; office; cause;


He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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Caraka
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Re: Pali training rules

Postby Caraka » Tue Aug 28, 2012 10:10 am

Great, thanks:)

Wiki still say: In the fifth precept sura, meraya and majja are kinds of alcoholic beverages.

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Caraka
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Re: Pali training rules

Postby Caraka » Wed Aug 29, 2012 10:05 am

I agree with Wiki, its text is about refrain from alcohol or carelessness from alcohol. This translation seems also to be supported by other different Buddhist traditions. E.g. the Chinese Mahayana texts just say 'Do not drink alcohol'. And I think the 5 Precept should not be generalised for the good intentions of translator, it should be left to the reader to investigate what the Precepts means for the individual.

Thanks for helping me out in this, all of you.

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Re: Pali training rules

Postby Cittasanto » Wed Aug 29, 2012 6:41 pm



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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Caraka
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Re: Pali training rules

Postby Caraka » Thu Aug 30, 2012 5:43 pm


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Re: Pali training rules

Postby daverupa » Thu Aug 30, 2012 6:13 pm


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Re: Pali training rules

Postby Cittasanto » Thu Aug 30, 2012 7:35 pm



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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Re: Pali training rules

Postby Cittasanto » Thu Aug 30, 2012 8:07 pm



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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Caraka
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Re: Pali training rules

Postby Caraka » Fri Aug 31, 2012 8:06 am


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Caraka
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Re: Pali training rules

Postby Caraka » Fri Aug 31, 2012 9:58 am


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Re: Pali training rules

Postby daverupa » Fri Aug 31, 2012 10:30 am


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Caraka
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Re: Pali training rules

Postby Caraka » Fri Aug 31, 2012 12:00 pm


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Re: Pali training rules

Postby Cittasanto » Fri Aug 31, 2012 10:10 pm

Last edited by Cittasanto on Fri Aug 31, 2012 11:48 pm, edited 2 times in total.


He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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daverupa
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Re: Pali training rules

Postby daverupa » Fri Aug 31, 2012 10:33 pm



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