Jhana Question

Discussion of Samatha bhavana and Jhana bhavana.

Re: Jhana Question

Postby Sutiro » Mon Sep 03, 2012 12:09 pm

Yet i was also told, that to achieve jhana one must follow the tetrads. However i thought it was uneccessary to keep attention on whether the breath is short or long and other stuff like that.


Maybe the Jhanas aren't as complicated as they make out. The first two levels involve discursive thought which isn't hard to achieve! So, from what you have explained, you may well have been in one of them. Don't forget that the house of samadhi is built on Sila foundation and the purpose of it all is to allow panna not jhana to arise. We need to devote as much time to all aspects of practice. When jhana comes along you'll know.
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Re: Jhana Question

Postby daverupa » Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 pm

Sutiro wrote:The first two levels involve discursive thought


The first jhana has vitakka-vicara, while the second jhana does not.
    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.
- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
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Re: Jhana Question

Postby marc108 » Mon Sep 03, 2012 5:02 pm

LonesomeYogurt wrote:2. If you're willing to endure a slightly unpleasant feeling, try cupping warm water in your hands, snorting it up into your nose, and blowing it back out. Doing this one or two times will clear your nose and make it far more sensitive, allowing for a much easier knowing of the sensation. Let me tell you, this little tip from Buddhadasa was the most effective advice I've ever gotten on meditation.


pretty rad tip! where did you see him say that?
"It's easy for us to connect with what's wrong with us... and not so easy to feel into, or to allow us, to connect with what's right and what's good in us."
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Re: Jhana Question

Postby daverupa » Mon Sep 03, 2012 5:26 pm

marc108 wrote:pretty rad tip!


"The earliest record of nasal irrigation is found in the ancient Hindu practice of Ayurveda whose roots are traced to the Vedas. The simplest method of nasal irrigation, that is to sniff water from cupped hands and then blowing it out, is also a step in the hygienic practices (Wudu) of Muslims."

nasal irrigation

Extremes of humidity or aridity might play a part here.
    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.
- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
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Re: Jhana Question

Postby Sutiro » Mon Sep 03, 2012 10:30 pm

New postby daverupa » Tue Sep 04, 2012 12:54 am

Sutiro wrote:The first two levels involve discursive thought



The first jhana has vitakka-vicara, while the second jhana does not.


The second jhana has vicara, only vittakka is gone as subjects for contemplation are said to arise spontaneously. So, discursive thought is still an element of second jhana.

By the way, we named our eldest son "Jhana" but he has no idea what it means. He thinks it's pretty cool though as he has it tattooed up his arm. Actually he is the second Jhana I know. Some Dhamma friends called their son Jhana as well:)

Karuna
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Re: Jhana Question

Postby daverupa » Mon Sep 03, 2012 11:14 pm

Sutiro wrote:The second jhana has vicara


With the stilling of vitakka-vicāra, having entered in the second jhāna, he abides therein with inner tanquilization, unification of citta, without vitakka nor vicāra, with pīti and sukha born of samādhi.

vitakka-vicārānaṃ vūpasamā ajjhattaṃ sampasādanaṃ cetaso ekodibhāvaṃ a-vitakkaṃ a-vicāraṃ samādhijaṃ pītisukhaṃ dutiyaṃ jhānaṃ upasampajja viharati

source
    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.
- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
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Re: Jhana Question

Postby Sutiro » Tue Sep 04, 2012 3:17 am

Thanks for the correction:)
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Re: Jhana Question

Postby Micheal Kush » Tue Sep 04, 2012 9:47 pm

Recently i have transmitted my practices and turned to do more of a full body breathing awareness and find that it actually stablizes my concentration even sharper than fixation on the nose. If one wills, one can contemplate the characterisitics of the body while using the breath as an anchor and still find that one becomes sort of absorped into the process of breathing then one can go back and enter the nostrils with awareness. Choosing to stick with the full body method, i find that the calming of the bodily fabrications comes naturally and that one can certiantly calm the intention. However, as Thanissaro teaches, one can if one wills, to simply change the pattern of breathing and simply expirement with the feelings they induce or act upon.

Honestly, both methods are reliable ways to enter jhana as far as i see it.

May your practice go well to all

With metta, mike
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