I am no thing

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I am no thing

Postby Scott1989 » Mon Sep 03, 2012 12:08 pm

My last topic got a lot of negative responses and misinterpretations, so I decided to make a new one to make up for the previous one. Perhaps this path is more helpful.

I am no thing. Everything is simple once this is realized.

Whenever I am no thing, there is freedom. Suffering is resistance to what is now, so suffering cannot exist when I am no thing, since there is no one to resist what is now. It is that simple. No need for special ideas, feelings or realizations when you are in a state of presence. No need to believe that everything is good as it is. As long as you are no thing, you cannot cling to any object, and suffering cannot be there.

I am no thing, because all objects are conditioned. There is no I controlling them, since they are controlled by the totality. Once this is realized, there can be no more choice to make, since there is no I who can choose.

As long as there is delusion (I am this, I am that), there are choices to be made. The only helpful choice, however, is to become present. Everything else, even choices that seem beneficial, will keep suffering alive, because you will keep being a thing.

So whenever there is suffering, craving, perception of wrong action, perception of wrong speech, etc. that is your alarm bell that says 'there is delusion, I have become a thing'. Now the only choice is to become present. How? By removing delusion or by thinking about it, you maintain the feeling that there is something that needs to be done and thus maintain the delusion. Instead, just remember: I am no thing.

Now ALL I need to do in life, is to remember that I am no thing whenever I feel that I am a thing. There are NO other choices to be made anymore.

Why does it even matter then? It doesn't, that's the joke. When you are no thing, nothing matters. But when you are a thing, everything matters. So you exchange wanting something for wanting freedom and then by realizing you are no thing, even wanting freedom dissolves. There is nothing more that needs to be done now.
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Re: I am no thing

Postby James the Giant » Mon Sep 03, 2012 1:28 pm

I was going to post "woohoo, here we go again!!" but no, what you wrote is pretty good.
But I'd just add that it's not as simple as "just remember: I am no thing." It's not that easy.
Because remembering "I am no thing" is mostly just intellectual, but what is important is the actual experience of no thing/no self (anatta). The shocking experience of anatta.
It takes a long long time for most people to get to the stage where they realise anatta.
So, saying "just remember: I am no thing" is true, but not really very useful to anyone on the path. What is more useful is a prescription for how to get there, how to walk the path. That's the 8-fold path, the precepts, etc.
Then,
saturated with joy,
you will put an end to suffering and stress.
SN 9.11
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Re: I am no thing

Postby equilibrium » Mon Sep 03, 2012 1:46 pm

If you are "No thing" then what is the "thing" that typed the OP? and for what purpose?
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Re: I am no thing

Postby Scott1989 » Mon Sep 03, 2012 1:48 pm

That's true. Some sort of awakening experiece is required first.

But there are many ways to achieve that. Like you said, reading up on buddhism, precepts, eightfold path, etc. I feel like most people on this forum have already done that. But after the awakening experience things get tricky. This is where the true practice begins in a way.

The key here is that when you say 'I am no thing' you automatically recognize that there is no seperate you choosing to say that. For me it works and it brings realization.
Last edited by Scott1989 on Mon Sep 03, 2012 1:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: I am no thing

Postby Scott1989 » Mon Sep 03, 2012 1:51 pm

To equilibrium, I have no fingers I can use to type, so I am sorry, but there is no way for me to answer your post. :D
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Re: I am no thing

Postby tiltbillings » Mon Sep 03, 2012 1:57 pm

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: I am no thing

Postby Dan74 » Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:00 pm

I am 100% with James.

If you have had this insight, I hope you persevere with your practice and help others with theirs when appropriate. That's all there is to it.
_/|\_
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Re: I am no thing

Postby James the Giant » Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:05 pm

Scott1989 wrote:...when you say 'I am no thing' you automatically recognize that there is no seperate you choosing to say that. For me it works and it brings realization.

You, my friend, are a very fortunate fellow! Or you've spent like, a billion lifetimes getting to this point. This might be your last one! Awesome.

equilibrium wrote:If you are "No thing" then what is the "thing" that typed the OP? and for what purpose?

A person who has realised anatta and knows there is no self on a moment-to-moment basis can still type and have purposes, but... there's no self at home. No commentator, uh, I don't know how to put it into words. No suffering anyway.
Then,
saturated with joy,
you will put an end to suffering and stress.
SN 9.11
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Re: I am no thing

Postby Scott1989 » Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:29 pm

Hmm, perhaps you are right in saying that many people are not ready for this kind of path. I am not a regular on this forum, but I was under the impression that many people here had already realized no-self. Maintaining this realization is the hard part, so that's why I thought my topic might be of help.

Am I lucky? I don't consider my experience to be that exceptional, but perhaps I am wrong. I do know that vanity and worries about my girlfriend and family still have a big grip on me :D However, my current path does seem to work as it keeps giving me a bigger sense of freedom.
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Re: I am no thing

Postby DAWN » Mon Sep 03, 2012 3:02 pm

It's wonderfull !!!

Me, i say somethink like "All.. this..." :namaste:
It's true that the true practice begins here, all you said it's true...

I'am feel realy happy :hug:
Sabbe dhamma anatta
We are not concurents...
I'am sorry for my english
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Re: I am no thing

Postby unspoken » Mon Sep 03, 2012 4:14 pm

When you realize something deeply, you dont need to keep maintain it because its part of you already.

I know buddha taught the 8 fold path, theres no other new sort of path or the path that is somehow hidden within the meaning of 8 fold path. No such thing, buddha teaches us what he knows, he hide nothing for none purpose.

If one thinks that he/she already realized nibbana with own sort of ideas and thinking, stubbornly hold onto that idea, that is delusion already.
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Re: I am no thing

Postby reflection » Mon Sep 03, 2012 4:33 pm

"I am no thing" is not right. Because if you define yourself as no thing, you are still defining yourself. So what are you than?

I don't require an answer, I just wanted to warn you just to be careful you don't place your (intellectual) understanding on a high pedestal, thinking you've got it all, you know it all. Because chances are big that you don't, and some points in your post tell me that's probably the case. But it's ok. You may have some understanding and I'm not trying to put that down. Just know that the realization of no-self has many phases and steps to go trough. If you leave no room for further understanding, you might block that off, because you aren't looking deeper.

With good intentions,
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Re: I am no thing

Postby DAWN » Mon Sep 03, 2012 4:55 pm

unspoken wrote:When you realize something deeply, you dont need to keep maintain it because its part of you already.

I know buddha taught the 8 fold path, theres no other new sort of path or the path that is somehow hidden within the meaning of 8 fold path. No such thing, buddha teaches us what he knows, he hide nothing for none purpose.

If one thinks that he/she already realized nibbana with own sort of ideas and thinking, stubbornly hold onto that idea, that is delusion already.


Everybody alrady have The Nibbana, everybody have alrady The Dhamma, but once discovered, true nature must to be develop, and to be maintain. It's not something created, it's allrady here, it is the nature of all, but must to be develop. That is what we say that is the begginig of true practice.

SN 12.23
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .bodh.html

"Emancipation, monks, also has a supporting condition, I say, it does not lack a supporting condition. And what is the supporting condition for emancipation? 'Dispassion' should be the reply.
Sabbe dhamma anatta
We are not concurents...
I'am sorry for my english
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Re: I am no thing

Postby DAWN » Mon Sep 03, 2012 5:07 pm

reflection wrote:"I am no thing" is not right. Because if you define yourself as no thing, you are still defining yourself. So what are you than?


The problem dwells in english language, because english dont allow to speak without using "I"

Anyway, there is 'somethink', or rather nothnik, and when it is discovered, beyound all thought, beyound all dhamma, beyound the death, beyond the 'I', you know dirrectly, and you see dirrectly, by your own, that it's ALL, there is nothing afret that, that is the foundation of all, absoluttely clear, stable, wise, non conditioned, not created etc etc... It have all qualities and, at the same moment, it does not any qualities...

Anyway we have to practice, and to be awere to discover the 'One Who Knows' and take the refuge in this, dwell in this
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We are not concurents...
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Re: I am no thing

Postby Scott1989 » Mon Sep 03, 2012 5:13 pm

Thank you, Dawn, I am happy too :D

To Reflection, I agree with what you said. What you say is kind of similar to what James meant. The point of this exercise is that "I am no thing" becomes a pointer to the realization that there is nothing to hold on to (including that thought itself) and no one who can choose to hold on or let go. When succesful, intellectual understanding is no longer needed in that moment.

This works because to believe that I am no thing and define myself by that, requires me to first be a thing! Whenever I am no thing, I cannot even say that I am no thing. Who would be saying that? Who would be believing that to be true? Who would be making the mistake?
Last edited by Scott1989 on Mon Sep 03, 2012 5:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: I am no thing

Postby Scott1989 » Mon Sep 03, 2012 5:27 pm

unspoken wrote:
When you realize something deeply, you dont need to keep maintain it because its part of you already.


I disagree. I find that practicing something can deepen your understanding. There is a lot of conditioning that needs to be undone and it's hard for me to believe it will all be undone in one flash of insight.

unspoken wrote:
I know buddha taught the 8 fold path, theres no other new sort of path or the path that is somehow hidden within the meaning of 8 fold path. No such thing, buddha teaches us what he knows, he hide nothing for none purpose.

If one thinks that he/she already realized nibbana with own sort of ideas and thinking, stubbornly hold onto that idea, that is delusion already.


The eightfold path doesn't have something hidden in it, but the way in which you practice it changes over time. That is my experience. Basically, I am still practicing the eightfold path. This topic is just about a pointer I use that I find helpful to stay on the path.
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Re: I am no thing

Postby Caraka » Mon Sep 03, 2012 6:33 pm

Scott, can I ask what Mara is for you?
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Re: I am no thing

Postby DAWN » Mon Sep 03, 2012 6:35 pm

Caraka wrote:Scott, can I ask what Mara is for you?


Could I respond ? :roll:
Sabbe dhamma anatta
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Re: I am no thing

Postby Scott1989 » Mon Sep 03, 2012 7:46 pm

What is Mara for me? Do you mean what is delusion for me? When would I speak of a problem? Because I don't really see Mara as a female demon who is trying to seduce me :tongue:

When you are having a dream at night you are always the main character of that dream. As long as you are the main character with a personality and choices, the dream can make you suffer. If you would truly and completely realize that it is all a dream, then who are you? You are now no longer the main character of the dream, because he or she is also part of the dream. You are now the space in which the dream happens. You can't even call this a 'me', since calling it 'me' would also be part of the dream.

In a way, I could say that for me the problem is believing in the dream, instead of experiencing the dream from a place without judgment. Judgment, after all, is also part of the dream.

Believing yourself to be a specific part of the dream/identification with an object/ignorance/craving/suffering ... I would say these all point to the same 'problem' or mistake that we can also make in 'the real world'.

The only solution then would be to wake up. No other solution will do.
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Re: I am no thing

Postby SDC » Mon Sep 03, 2012 8:53 pm

Scott1989 wrote:I disagree. I find that practicing something can deepen your understanding. There is a lot of conditioning that needs to be undone and it's hard for me to believe it will all be undone in one flash of insight.


I think upspoken is presenting the possibility that there is more work that can be done, that there is further understanding to achieve.

Scott1989 wrote:The eightfold path doesn't have something hidden in it, but the way in which you practice it changes over time. That is my experience. Basically, I am still practicing the eightfold path. This topic is just about a pointer I use that I find helpful to stay on the path.


This clarifies much of what you have been saying recently, and it is actually what I have been trying to get you to explain in every post to you:

You have an intellectual grasp on what you want to do, but you still have to actually do it. Meaning that you are still moving and have not fully understood everything.
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