Maybe the Jhanas aren't as complicated as they make out. The first two levels involve discursive thought which isn't hard to achieve! So, from what you have explained, you may well have been in one of them. Don't forget that the house of samadhi is built on Sila foundation and the purpose of it all is to allow panna not jhana to arise. We need to devote as much time to all aspects of practice. When jhana comes along you'll know.Yet i was also told, that to achieve jhana one must follow the tetrads. However i thought it was uneccessary to keep attention on whether the breath is short or long and other stuff like that.
Jhana Question
Re: Jhana Question
Re: Jhana Question
The first jhana has vitakka-vicara, while the second jhana does not.Sutiro wrote:The first two levels involve discursive thought
- "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.
"And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.
- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
Re: Jhana Question
pretty rad tip! where did you see him say that?LonesomeYogurt wrote: 2. If you're willing to endure a slightly unpleasant feeling, try cupping warm water in your hands, snorting it up into your nose, and blowing it back out. Doing this one or two times will clear your nose and make it far more sensitive, allowing for a much easier knowing of the sensation. Let me tell you, this little tip from Buddhadasa was the most effective advice I've ever gotten on meditation.
"It's easy for us to connect with what's wrong with us... and not so easy to feel into, or to allow us, to connect with what's right and what's good in us."
Re: Jhana Question
"The earliest record of nasal irrigation is found in the ancient Hindu practice of Ayurveda whose roots are traced to the Vedas. The simplest method of nasal irrigation, that is to sniff water from cupped hands and then blowing it out, is also a step in the hygienic practices (Wudu) of Muslims."marc108 wrote:pretty rad tip!
nasal irrigation
Extremes of humidity or aridity might play a part here.
- "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.
"And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.
- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
Re: Jhana Question
New postby daverupa » Tue Sep 04, 2012 12:54 am
Sutiro wrote:The first two levels involve discursive thought
The first jhana has vitakka-vicara, while the second jhana does not.
The second jhana has vicara, only vittakka is gone as subjects for contemplation are said to arise spontaneously. So, discursive thought is still an element of second jhana.
By the way, we named our eldest son "Jhana" but he has no idea what it means. He thinks it's pretty cool though as he has it tattooed up his arm. Actually he is the second Jhana I know. Some Dhamma friends called their son Jhana as well:)
Karuna
Sutiro
Sutiro wrote:The first two levels involve discursive thought
The first jhana has vitakka-vicara, while the second jhana does not.
The second jhana has vicara, only vittakka is gone as subjects for contemplation are said to arise spontaneously. So, discursive thought is still an element of second jhana.
By the way, we named our eldest son "Jhana" but he has no idea what it means. He thinks it's pretty cool though as he has it tattooed up his arm. Actually he is the second Jhana I know. Some Dhamma friends called their son Jhana as well:)
Karuna
Sutiro
Re: Jhana Question
With the stilling of vitakka-vicāra, having entered in the second jhāna, he abides therein with inner tanquilization, unification of citta, without vitakka nor vicāra, with pīti and sukha born of samādhi.Sutiro wrote:The second jhana has vicara
vitakka-vicārānaṃ vūpasamā ajjhattaṃ sampasādanaṃ cetaso ekodibhāvaṃ a-vitakkaṃ a-vicāraṃ samādhijaṃ pītisukhaṃ dutiyaṃ jhānaṃ upasampajja viharati
source
- "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.
"And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.
- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
Re: Jhana Question
Thanks for the correction:)
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- Posts: 72
- Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2012 8:47 pm
Re: Jhana Question
Recently i have transmitted my practices and turned to do more of a full body breathing awareness and find that it actually stablizes my concentration even sharper than fixation on the nose. If one wills, one can contemplate the characterisitics of the body while using the breath as an anchor and still find that one becomes sort of absorped into the process of breathing then one can go back and enter the nostrils with awareness. Choosing to stick with the full body method, i find that the calming of the bodily fabrications comes naturally and that one can certiantly calm the intention. However, as Thanissaro teaches, one can if one wills, to simply change the pattern of breathing and simply expirement with the feelings they induce or act upon.
Honestly, both methods are reliable ways to enter jhana as far as i see it.
May your practice go well to all
With metta, mike
Honestly, both methods are reliable ways to enter jhana as far as i see it.
May your practice go well to all
With metta, mike
Re: Jhana Question
"vicara-evaluate it until you arrive at an understanding of it, e.g., seeing the body as unclean or as composed of impersonal properties"danieLion wrote:Ajaan Lee wrote:The highest level of concentration — fixed penetration — follows on threshold concentration. If mindfulness and alertness arise while you are in threshold concentration, they turn it into jhana.
Jhana means focusing the mind, making it absorbed in a single object, such as the internal sense of the form of the body. If you want jhana to arise and not deteriorate, you have to practice until you are skilled. Here's how it's done: Think of a single object, such as the breath. Don't think of anything else. Practice focusing on your single object. Now add the other factors: Vitakka — think about the object; and vicara — evaluate it until you arrive at an understanding of it, e.g., seeing the body as unclean or as composed of impersonal properties. The mind then becomes light; the body becomes light; both body and mind feel satisfied and refreshed: This is piti, rapture. The body has no feelings of pain, and the mind experiences no pain: This is sukha, pleasure and ease. This is the first level of rupa jhana, which has five factors appearing in this order; singleness of object (ekaggata), thought, evaluation, rapture, and pleasure.
When you practice, start out by focusing on a single object, such as the breath.
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Should "seeing the body as unclean or as composed of impersonal properties" be considered the evaluation part of it, or the understanding that comes from the evaluation?