Rebirth in clasical theravada

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kc2dpt
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Re: Rebirth in clasical theravada

Postby kc2dpt » Fri Jun 12, 2009 4:26 am

I was thinking of the Kalama Sutta, but that one's good too. :)
- Peter


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Re: Rebirth in clasical theravada

Postby jcsuperstar » Fri Jun 12, 2009 4:52 am

i cant think of any pre-20th century teaching mahyana or theravada that is a non literal rebirth teaching or doesnt include rebirth as a part of buddhism.
the earliest example ive read of rebirth as non literal was a transcription of a japanese zen teaching from around WW2 (i think, though it may have been later) that was originally broadcast on japanese radio. after that comes Buddhadasa, who was influenced by zen so..... :shrug:
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the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat

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Ben
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Re: Rebirth in clasical theravada

Postby Ben » Fri Jun 12, 2009 5:06 am

Thanks JC. We'll keep the current discussion focused on the Classical Theravada as per this sub-forum and the intent of the OP.
Kind regards

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

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e: [email protected]..

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Jechbi
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Re: Rebirth in clasical theravada

Postby Jechbi » Fri Jun 12, 2009 5:35 am


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Ben
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Re: Rebirth in clasical theravada

Postby Ben » Fri Jun 12, 2009 5:42 am

Hi Jechbi

Have a look at the following:
MN 60: Apannaka Sutta: The Incontrovertible Teaching
and...
MN 74: Dighanakha Sutta: To Dighanakha

These probably represent the tip of the iceberg but they are two I have been reading today.

If you don't have Ven Bodhi's translation, please let me know and I'll transcribe the notes.
Metta

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

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Re: Rebirth in clasical theravada

Postby mikenz66 » Fri Jun 12, 2009 6:03 am


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Re: Rebirth in clasical theravada

Postby Jechbi » Fri Jun 12, 2009 7:08 am


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Re: Rebirth in clasical theravada

Postby mikenz66 » Fri Jun 12, 2009 7:23 am


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Re: Rebirth in clasical theravada

Postby Cittasanto » Fri Jun 12, 2009 11:22 am



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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Re: Rebirth in clasical theravada

Postby retrofuturist » Fri Jun 12, 2009 11:27 am

Greetings Manapa,

No problems... I was hoping it might provide some context, but that's okay.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Re: Rebirth in clasical theravada

Postby Cittasanto » Fri Jun 12, 2009 11:30 am

Last edited by Cittasanto on Fri Jun 12, 2009 11:52 am, edited 1 time in total.


He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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Re: Rebirth in clasical theravada

Postby mikenz66 » Fri Jun 12, 2009 11:32 am


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Re: Rebirth in clasical theravada

Postby Cittasanto » Fri Jun 12, 2009 11:46 am



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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Ben
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Re: Rebirth in clasical theravada

Postby Ben » Fri Jun 12, 2009 11:47 am

Hi Manapa
They're in A translation of the Majjhima Nikaya. I don't known whether they're in In the Buddha's Words as I don't yet own a copy of that volume.
I'm in the middle of transcribing the notes to MN 60.
Metta

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

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Cittasanto
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Re: Rebirth in clasical theravada

Postby Cittasanto » Fri Jun 12, 2009 11:54 am



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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kc2dpt
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Re: Rebirth in clasical theravada

Postby kc2dpt » Fri Jun 12, 2009 2:33 pm

- Peter


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Re: Rebirth in clasical theravada

Postby mikenz66 » Fri Jun 12, 2009 8:29 pm


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Re: Rebirth in clasical theravada

Postby Ben » Sat Jun 13, 2009 12:38 am

Hi all

Please find attached a word document containing the notes to Bhikkhu Bodhi and Bhikkhu Namamoli's translation of MN 60: The Incontrovertible Teaching. I transcribed these notes for the benefit of those who do not have access to The middle length discourses of the Buddha: a translation of the Majjhima Nikaya by the venerables published by Wisdom.

The attached document is in RTF as the system doesn't like docx file format! Any typographical errors are my own.
Metta

Ben
Attachments
MN 60 Notes.rtf
(53.07 KiB) Downloaded 116 times
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

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mikenz66
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Re: Rebirth in clasical theravada

Postby mikenz66 » Sat Jun 13, 2009 1:51 am

Hi Ben,

I'm posting a PDF version of your file, in case that's helpful to someone...

The introduction by Thanissaro Bhikkhu to his translation of MN60 http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html is also quite helpful.

Metta
Mike
Attachments
MN 60 Notes.pdf
(87.13 KiB) Downloaded 96 times

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Re: Rebirth in clasical theravada

Postby Dhammanando » Sat Jun 13, 2009 2:01 am



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