SN 46.3 Virtue

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SN 46.3 Virtue

Postby mikenz66 » Tue Sep 04, 2012 9:25 pm

SN 46.3 Virtue
Translated by John Ireland
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... passage-67

"Bhikkhus, whatsoever bhikkhus possess moral virtue, possess concentration, possess wisdom, possess liberation, possess the knowledge and insight of liberation — the [mere] seeing of those bhikkhus is of great profit, I say. To hear about those bhikkhus... to approach those bhikkhus... to associate with those bhikkhus... to remember those bhikkhus... to imitate those bhikkhus in going forth [into homelessness] is of great profit, I say. For what reason? On hearing the Dhamma[80] of such bhikkhus one lives secluded with a twofold seclusion, of body and mind. Living thus secluded one remembers the Dhamma and reflects upon it.

"At whatever time, bhikkhus, a bhikkhu living thus secluded remembers and reflects upon the Dhamma, at that time the enlightenment factor[81] of mindfulness is aroused in that bhikkhu. At whatever time a bhikkhu develops the enlightenment factor of mindfulness, at that time that bhikkhu's development of it comes to perfection. He living mindful thus, considers with wisdom and investigates the Dhamma and undertakes an inquiry into it.

"At whatever time, bhikkhus, a bhikkhu, living thus mindful, considers with wisdom, investigates and undertakes an inquiry into the Dhamma, at that time the enlightenment factor of reality-investigation[82] is aroused in that bhikkhu. At whatever time a bhikkhu develops the enlightenment factor of reality-investigation, at that time that bhikkhu's development of it comes to perfection. In him, considering with wisdom, investigating and undertaking an inquiry into the Dhamma, tireless energy is aroused.

"At whatever time... tireless energy is aroused, at that time the enlightenment factor of energy is aroused in that bhikkhu. At whatever time a bhikkhu develops the enlightenment factor of energy, at that time that bhikkhu's development of it comes to perfection. In one who has energy aroused non-carnal joy arises.

"At whatever time, in one who has energy aroused non-carnal joy arises, at that time the enlightenment factor of joy is aroused in that bhikkhu. At whatever time a bhikkhu develops the enlightenment factor of joy, at that time that bhikkhu's development of it comes to perfection. In one who is joyful body and mind are tranquilized.

"At whatever time... body and mind are tranquilized, at that time the enlightenment factor of tranquility is aroused in that bhikkhu. At whatever time a bhikkhu develops the enlightenment factor of tranquility, at that time that bhikkhu's development of it comes to perfection. One who has tranquility of body is blissful; in one who is blissful the mind is concentrated.

"At whatever time... the mind is concentrated, at that time the enlightenment factor of concentration is aroused in that bhikkhu. At whatever time a bhikkhu develops the enlightenment factor of concentration at that time that bhikkhu's development of it comes to perfection. On his mind thus concentrated he looks with perfect equanimity.

"At whatever time, bhikkhus, a bhikkhu looks with perfect equanimity on mind thus concentrated, at that time the enlightenment factor of equanimity is aroused in that bhikkhu. At whatever time a bhikkhu develops the enlightenment factor of equanimity, at that time that bhikkhu's development of it comes to perfection.

"By developing the seven enlightenment factors and seriously practicing them thus, seven fruits, seven benefits are certain. What seven fruits, what seven benefits?

"One attains final knowledge (aññaa) here and now prior [to one's death]; if one does not attain final knowledge here and now prior [to one's death], then one attains it at the time of death; if one does not attain final knowledge here and now... nor at the time of death, then by the destruction of the five lower fetters[83] one attains final deliverance early [in one's next existence]; if one does not attain final knowledge here and now... nor... early [in one's next existence], then by the destruction of the five lower fetters one attains final deliverance late [in one's next existence]; if one does not attain final knowledge here and now... nor... late [in one's next existence], then by the destruction of the five lower fetters one attains final deliverance without [much] effort; if one does not attain final knowledge here and now... nor... without [much] effort, then by the destruction of the five lower fetters one attains final deliverance with [some] effort; if one does not attain final knowledge here and now... nor... with [some] effort, then by the destruction of the five lower fetters one goes up-stream, bound for the highest gods.[84]

"By developing the seven enlightenment factors and seriously practicing them thus, these seven benefits are certain."

Notes

80. "Dhamma" is a word of several meanings. Here besides meaning "the teaching of...," it could also mean: "the virtuous nature or conduct of...," "the (inspiring) ideal of those bhikkhus." All these meanings of the term "dhamma" may be taken into consideration.

81. These seven factors of enlightenment (satta-bojjhanga): mindfulness, reality-investigation (see following note), energy, joy, tranquility, concentration and equanimity, are, according to SN 46. 5, so called because "they lead to enlightenment" (bodhaaya sa.mvattanti), or else they are the constituent factors (a.nga) of enlightenment (bodhi) itself.

82. Dhamma-vicaya. The term dhamma here does not refer to the Buddha's Teaching, but to the mental and physical phenomena (dhammaa) presented to the mind in their real nature (i.e., without emotional coloring, likes and dislikes, etc.) through the cultivation of mindfulness.

83. Orambhaagiya-sa.myojana: the five fetters belonging to the lower, the sensual realms of existence, these being:
    Sakkaaya-di.t.thi — views about the "existing group" of mental and physical phenomena (i.e., the five aggregates), that they constitute a "self" or a "person" or an "ego" thought of as being permanent or existing in unbroken continuity from the past into the future;
    Vicikicchaa — wavering doubt;
    Siilabbata-paraamaasa — holding to habits and customs, mere external observances, thinking they will bring release of themselves;
    Kaamaraaga — sensual passions and attachments;
    Vyaapaada — ill-will, aversion.
A person who has eliminated these five fetters is called an anaagaamii, a never-returner. After death he does not come back again to this world, but is born in one of the five Pure Abodes (Suddhaavaasa) of the realm of form (ruupaloka) and there realizes final deliverance. The last five of these seven fruits refer to the five grades of anaagaamii in descending order, the highest is "one who attains final deliverance early," down to the "one going upstream."

84. Akani.t.thaagaamii: bound for the gods (devaa) of the highest of the Pure Abodes. This is the lowest of the five types of anaagaamii who, starting from the lowest, has to work his way through all five Pure Abodes before attaining final deliverance.
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Re: SN 46.3 Virtue

Postby Khalil Bodhi » Wed Sep 05, 2012 12:18 am

I've read the sutta and found the Pali rendering of the same and yet I'm at a loss to understand why it is called the Silaasutta. Perhaps I'm daft but if anyone has a clue I would be grateful to hear it. Mettaya!
To avoid all evil, to cultivate good, and to cleanse one's mind — this is the teaching of the Buddhas.
-Dhp. 183

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Re: SN 46.3 Virtue

Postby Hanzze » Wed Sep 05, 2012 6:46 am

As virtue is (incl. the admirable friend [other synonymes: Buddha, Teacher, maybe also good to remember the 4. Heavenly Messager as the symbol for the 4NT] - as sample and prerequisite of virtue) the very prerequisite for developing the path, not only for the wellfare of one self but for all others... and pointed out in this sutta:

"Bhikkhus, whatsoever bhikkhus possess moral virtue (-> Patimokkha), possess concentration, possess wisdom, possess liberation, possess the knowledge and insight of liberation — the [mere] seeing of those bhikkhus is of great profit, I say. To hear about those bhikkhus (who!: possess moral virtue)... to approach those bhikkhus... to associate with those bhikkhus... to remember those bhikkhus... to imitate those bhikkhus in going forth [into homelessness] is of great profit, I say. For what reason? On hearing the Dhamma of such bhikkhus one lives secluded with a twofold seclusion, of body and mind. Living thus secluded one remembers the Dhamma and reflects upon it.


from the The Lion's Roar
...12. "Though certain recluses and brahmans claim to propound the full understanding of all kinds of clinging... they describe the full understanding of clinging to sensual pleasures, clinging to views, and clinging to rules and observances without describing the full understanding of clinging to a doctrine of self. They do not understand one instance... therefore they describe only the full understanding of clinging to sensual pleasures, clinging to views, and clinging to rules and observances without describing the full understanding of clinging to a doctrine of self.[8]

13. "Bhikkhus, in such a Dhamma and Discipline as that it is plain that confidence in the Teacher is not rightly directed, that confidence in the Dhamma is not rightly directed, that fulfillment of the precepts is not rightly directed, and that the affection among companions in the Dhamma is not rightly directed. Why is that? Because that is how it is when the Dhamma and Discipline is [67] badly proclaimed and badly expounded, unemancipating, unconducive to peace, expounded by one who is not fully enlightened.


Without prerequistite (admirable teacher, friend - the sample of virtue - patimokkha as it's contition) there is no good teaching, no sample and it does not transport the path leading to the end of thirst.

from Self-awakening
'What, friend, are the prerequisites for the development of the wings to self-awakening?' you should answer, 'There is the case where a monk has admirable friends, admirable companions, admirable comrades. This is the first prerequisite for the development of the wings to self-awakening.

"'Furthermore, the monk is virtuous. He dwells restrained in accordance with the Patimokkha, consummate in his behavior & sphere of activity. He trains himself, having undertaken the training rules, seeing danger in the slightest faults. This is the second prerequisite for the development of the wings to self-awakening.


Sila -> Samadhi -> Panna (no way beside)
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
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Re: SN 46.3 Virtue

Postby Sam Vara » Wed Sep 05, 2012 9:02 am

We have here a Dhamata formulation: qualities arise naturally, in accordance with the dhamma, once other qualities are in existence. Throughout the canon, this is applied to other groups of qualities, not just the factors of enlightenment. As in the Cetana Sutta

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/an/an11/an11.002.than.html

I take this to mean that when one quality has been developed, there are good conditions for starting to develop the "next" one in the list of recommendations.

In one who is joyful body and mind are tranquilized.
.

But this Sutta goes a bit further, and in a couple of ways. It seems to say that the development is instantaneous.

At whatever time a bhikkhu develops the enlightenment factor of tranquility, at that time that bhikkhu's development of it comes to perfection.


At that time, the development of it comes to perfection. This is odd, as we would not say this in everyday life. ("As soon as he develops his musical ability, his musical ability comes to perfection"). A development requires time to happen, whereas the sutta specifically says "at that time": simultaneity.

I can suggest a couple of ways around this. First, it might be that the Buddha is referring to the process of development, rather than the thing that is being developed. In the above example, it is not tranquility which comes to perfection, but the development of that quality. The process of development is all that is required at that stage, rather than the perfected quality.

Second, it might be that the Buddha is somehow saying that the qualities are somehow more closely related than we realise, or our temporal sequential construing of this allows us to realise. The subsequent qualities (in this case, the bojjhanga) are all implicit in the first. We might not know that tranquility is implicit within joy, but given the right type of joy, we will see that it is.

And this might be some clue as to why the sutta has the name it has. Perhaps perfect virtue has all the other stuff, not just following it over a temporal sequence, but present at that time. Their presence would therefore function as a kind of immediate notification that the initial quality (sila) was of the correct type.
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Re: SN 46.3 Virtue

Postby mikenz66 » Fri Sep 07, 2012 7:13 pm

“Dwelling thus withdrawn, one recollects that Dhamma and thinks it over. Whenever, bhikkhus, a bhikkhu dwelling thus withdrawn recollects that Dhamma and thinks it over, on that occasion the enlightenment factor of mindfulness is aroused by the bhikkhu; on that occasion the bhikkhu develops the enlightenment factor of mindfulness; on that occasion the enlightenment factor of mindfulness comes to fulfilment by development in the bhikkhu.
BB: In stating that the satisambojjhaṅga arises by recollecting the Dhamma taught by accomplished monks, the text draws upon the etymological connection between sati as act of remembrance and the verb anussarati, to recollect. Though it has been overshadowed by sati’s more technical sense of awareness of the present, this nuance of the word is still occasionally preserved in Pāli
e.g., in the definition of the faculty of mindfulness at SN 48:9:
    “And where, bhikkhus, is the faculty of mindfulness to be seen? The faculty of mindfulness is to be seen here in the four establishments of mindfulness.

The three phrases used to describe the cultivation of each enlightenment factor can be understood to depict three successive stages of development: initial arousal, maturation, and culmination. Spk says that in this sutta the enlightenment factors are to be understood as pertaining to insight in the preliminary stage of the path of arahantship. They occur together in one mind-moment, though with different characteristics. The whole pattern is also at SN 54:13, but beginning with the four establishments of mindfulness as the means of arousing the satisambojjhaṅga.
    “Concentration by mindfulness of breathing, Ānanda, is the one thing which, when developed and cultivated, fulfils the four establishments of mindfulness. The four establishments of mindfulness, when developed and cultivated, fulfil the seven factors of enlightenment. The seven factors of enlightenment, when developed and cultivated, fulfil true knowledge and liberation.
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Re: SN 46.3 Virtue

Postby Sam Vara » Fri Sep 07, 2012 8:18 pm

Hi Mike,

BB's point about the coexistence of the two meanings of sati is interesting. I have difficulty in separating them out (i.e. conceiving of sati as something altogether different from recollection) because it leaves it rather content-free. And into this vacuum rush the plethora of meanings which Thanissaro warns about.

But assuming BB is correct, and the older (recollection) meaning can coexist with and occasionally emerge from the shadow of its younger sibling. I still can't see how the example given:

“And where, bhikkhus, is the faculty of mindfulness to be seen? The faculty of mindfulness is to be seen here in the four establishments of mindfulness.


is an example of this. This seems (at least without context, as given) to be as consistent with the later as the former version, with no obvious sense of recollection or remembrance. I must be missing something here...

This bit:

The three phrases used to describe the cultivation of each enlightenment factor can be understood to depict three successive stages of development: initial arousal, maturation, and culmination.


Is the point I made earlier, along with:

They occur together in one mind-moment, though with different characteristics.


I don't really understand the nuts-and-bolts of "mind moment", so I'd best leave this. Is there a quick and easy way to understand it? Again, though, I am a bit puzzled by the example given by BB. He says there are

three successive stages of development: initial arousal, maturation, and culmination.
,

which is fine (if difficult to reconcile with simultaneity, but I did say I'd leave it!). But the example he gives as "the whole pattern" is

“Concentration by mindfulness of breathing, Ānanda, is the one thing which, when developed and cultivated, fulfils the four establishments of mindfulness. The four establishments of mindfulness, when developed and cultivated, fulfil the seven factors of enlightenment. The seven factors of enlightenment, when developed and cultivated, fulfil true knowledge and liberation.


This only has two of the three. There is no "initial arousal" here. To say it is implied in the sequence looks a bit like allowing the commentarial framework to drive the meaning.
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Re: SN 46.3 Virtue

Postby mikenz66 » Sat Sep 08, 2012 3:06 am

Hi Sam,

I also didn't quite understand the nuances that Bhikkhu Bodhi was trying to get across in that note. One may need to study the Pali version to see what he is talking about. I'm in the middle of a trip, so I'm probably not paying that sutta enough attention...

:anjali:
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Re: SN 46.3 Virtue

Postby mikenz66 » Mon Sep 10, 2012 8:37 pm

“For one whose body is tranquil and who is happy the mind becomes concentrated.[*] Whenever, bhikkhus, the mind becomes concentrated in a bhikkhu whose body is tranquil and who is happy, on that occasion the enlightenment factor of concentration is aroused by the bhikkhu; on that occasion the bhikkhu develops the enlightenment factor of concentration; on that occasion the enlightenment factor of concentration comes to fulfilment by development in the bhikkhu.
[*] I follow Be here, which reads simply passaddhakāyassa sukhino cittaṃ samādhiyati. Se and Ee have passaddhakāyassa sukhaṃ hoti, sukhino cittaṃ samādhiyati, “for one whose body is tranquil there is happiness, for one who is happy the mind becomes concentrated.” I suspect this reading has arisen from confusion with such texts as 47:10 http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn47/sn47.010.olen.htmland AN V 3, 3-8, where sukha is a distinct stage in the sequence of development. Be is supported here by the Se and Ee reading of the exact parallel at 54:13. http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn54/sn54.013.than.html

Thanissaro Bhikkhu translates that passage as:
    "[6] For one who is at ease — his body calmed — the mind becomes concentrated. When the mind of one who is at ease — his body calmed — becomes concentrated, then concentration as a factor for Awakening becomes aroused. He develops it, and for him it goes to the culmination of its development.
Whereas Bhikkhu Bodhi has:
    “For one whose body is tranquil and who is happy the mind becomes concentrated. Whenever, Ānanda, the mind becomes concentrated in a bhikkhu whose body is tranquil and who is happy, on that occasion the enlightenment factor of concentration is aroused by the bhikkhu; on that occasion the bhikkhu develops the enlightenment factor of concentration; on that occasion the enlightenment factor of concentration goes to fulfilment by development in the bhikkhu.
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Re: SN 46.3 Virtue

Postby mikenz66 » Mon Sep 10, 2012 8:46 pm

Some more reading on the Factors of Awakening:
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/index-su ... #bojjhanga
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Re: SN 46.3 Virtue

Postby mikenz66 » Tue Sep 11, 2012 8:40 am

“If one does not attain final knowledge early in this very life or at the time of death, then with the utter destruction of the five lower fetters one becomes an attainer of Nibbāna in the interval. [*] “If one does not attain final knowledge early in this very life ... or become an attainer of Nibbāna in the interval, then with the utter destruction of the five lower fetters one becomes an attainer of Nibbāna upon landing.

BB: This fivefold typology of nonreturners recurs at 48:15, 24, 66; 51:26; 54:5; and 55:25. Spk explains the antarāparinibbāyī (“attainer of Nibbāna in the interval”) as one reborn in the Pure Abodes who attains arahantship during the first half of the life span. This type is subdivided into three, depending on whether arahantship is reached: (i) on the very day of rebirth; (ii) after one or two hundred aeons have elapsed; or (iii) after four hundred aeons have elapsed. The upahaccaparinibbāyī (“attainer of Nibbāna upon landing”) is explained as one who attains arahantship after passing the first half of the life span. For Spk, the asaṅkhāraparinibbāyī (“attainer without exertion”) and the sasaṅkhāraparinibbāyī (“attainer with exertion”) then become two modes in which the first two types of nonreturners attain the goal. This explanation originates from Pp 16-17 (commented on at Pp-a 198-201). However, not only does this account of the first two types disregard the literal meaning of their names, but it also overrides the sequential and mutually exclusive nature of the five types as delineated elsewhere in the suttas (see below).
If we understand the term antarāparinibbāyī literally, as it seems we should, it then means one who attains Nibbāna in the interval between two lives, perhaps while existing in a subtle body in the intermediate state. The upahaccaparinibbāyī then becomes one who attains Nibbāna “upon landing” or “striking ground” in the new existence, i.e., almost immediately after taking rebirth. The next two terms designate two types who attain arahantship in the course of the next life, distinguished by the amount of effort they must make to win the goal. The last, the uddhaṃsota akaniṭṭhagāmī, is one who takes rebirth in successive Pure Abodes, completes the full life span in each, and finally attains arahantship in the Akaniṭṭha realm, the highest Pure Abode.

This interpretation, adopted by several non-Theravāda schools of early Buddhism, seems to be confirmed by the Purisagati Sutta (AN IV 70-74), [http://www.metta.lk/tipitaka/2Sutta-Pitaka/4Anguttara-Nikaya/Anguttara4/7-sattakanipata/006-abyakatavaggo-e.html] in which the simile of the flaming chip suggests that the seven types (including the three kinds of antarāparinibbāyī) are mutually exclusive and have been graded according to the sharpness of their faculties. Additional support comes from AN II 134,25-29, which explains the antarāparinibbāyī as one who has abandoned the fetter of rebirth (upapattisaṃyojana) without yet having abandoned the fetter of existence (bhavasaṃyojana). Though the Theravādin proponents argue against this interpretation of antarāparinibbāyī (e.g., at Kv 366), the evidence from the suttas leans strongly in its favour. For a detailed discussion, see Harvey, The Selfless Mind, pp. 98-108.
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Re: SN 46.3 Virtue

Postby Sam Vara » Tue Sep 11, 2012 11:41 am

mikenz66 wrote:“For one whose body is tranquil and who is happy the mind becomes concentrated.[*] Whenever, bhikkhus, the mind becomes concentrated in a bhikkhu whose body is tranquil and who is happy, on that occasion the enlightenment factor of concentration is aroused by the bhikkhu; on that occasion the bhikkhu develops the enlightenment factor of concentration; on that occasion the enlightenment factor of concentration comes to fulfilment by development in the bhikkhu.
[*] I follow Be here, which reads simply passaddhakāyassa sukhino cittaṃ samādhiyati. Se and Ee have passaddhakāyassa sukhaṃ hoti, sukhino cittaṃ samādhiyati, “for one whose body is tranquil there is happiness, for one who is happy the mind becomes concentrated.” I suspect this reading has arisen from confusion with such texts as 47:10 http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn47/sn47.010.olen.htmland AN V 3, 3-8, where sukha is a distinct stage in the sequence of development. Be is supported here by the Se and Ee reading of the exact parallel at 54:13. http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn54/sn54.013.than.html

Thanissaro Bhikkhu translates that passage as:
    "[6] For one who is at ease — his body calmed — the mind becomes concentrated. When the mind of one who is at ease — his body calmed — becomes concentrated, then concentration as a factor for Awakening becomes aroused. He develops it, and for him it goes to the culmination of its development.
Whereas Bhikkhu Bodhi has:
    “For one whose body is tranquil and who is happy the mind becomes concentrated. Whenever, Ānanda, the mind becomes concentrated in a bhikkhu whose body is tranquil and who is happy, on that occasion the enlightenment factor of concentration is aroused by the bhikkhu; on that occasion the bhikkhu develops the enlightenment factor of concentration; on that occasion the enlightenment factor of concentration goes to fulfilment by development in the bhikkhu.


These are far easier translations for me to understand, in that they avoid the problem over the implied simultaneity which occurs with Ireland using the phrase "at that time". These both read as if the first part of the process (here, ease and tranquility) gives rise naturally - dhamata - to the arising quality which is dependent upon it (here, concentration). This is a factor of enlightenment, and needs to be developed by the person concerned. If that development takes place, "on that occasion" (rather than "at that [same]time") then it comes to its conclusion. And coming to conclusion, it is ready to give rise to the next stage.

Much better!

Post script.

An even less misleading term in lieu of "at that time" might be the completely de-temporalised "in that case". If that doesn't fit the Pali, then back to square one!
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